Episode IV.XI – The Hunter’s Heart
We discuss Episode 11 of Season 4 of Merlin, The Hunter’s Heart.
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10th May 2021 @ 4:11 am
Sorry it’s been a hot minute since I’ve made comments beyond the Lessons game. I’ll start by saying that initially I couldn’t remember how long Gwen had been banished when we see her in the village. Then Arthur mentions he has been corresponding secretly for MONTHS and I was just blown away. To me it felt like two weeks, but the show glosses over time so much that I was very surprised. It makes Arthur’s pining and confusion just slightly more difficult to believe emotionally. Yes, one true love and so on, but dang. Months??? That could mean almost a year. It’s so sad to think of poor Arthur (and Gwen) suffering from the fallout of “Lancelot du Lac” for so long, and only finding a ring seems to bring him round. While I love the significance of the one true love reminded by a ring, it’s harder for me to get on board knowing it’s been months and not a few weeks as it feels to the audience.
I like to think of this episode as the Morgana copying episode. She copies the siege tunnel map(s), therefore (unknowingly) copying Merlin’s ye olde photocopier trick from “Lancelot” (haha I loved that phrase, Michelle). I was curious if she used the same spell. A script from “Lancelot” has Merlin saying “Ic us bisen hræd tán hwanon.” Meanwhile, I couldn’t find a script, nor did the closed captioning on “A Hunter’s Heart” tell me what she said. I don’t think it was the same thing, though. Still, I am slightly bummed for Merlin that he didn’t think of the idea that Morgana could do a similar trick as himself. If only he remembered his ye olde photocopier trick, then he may not have chosen THIS moment to try to out Agravaine. Morgana also copies Morgause’s example of using a powerful man to get an army and insinuating intimate relations if he succeeds. I agree that making this a season-long story would have made more sense, and I think it would’ve tied more nicely with the grief Morgana feels at her sister’s loss by trying to be like her.
Morgana is not good at planning ahead, though, especially on the fly. I often wondered why not turn Gwen into a monster-type thing (maybe not a Lamia, but something), to go kill Arthur? Two birds with one stone? But Morgana doesn’t know what she wants. Right now she just wants Gwen to suffer because they “were friends once.” *Spoiler!* Here goes this theme of punishing her former friend…
Gwen should’ve learned about Merlin’s magic at least in the Lamia episode, but wouldn’t Merlin literally saving her from deer-form and/or medically be a great way for her to learn? Yes, yes, we don’t want more people to lie to Arthur and so on. But come ON! I must also say I never understood why Merlin didn’t push Mithian’s arrow out of the way. Did he think a “shot” would get the hunting party to back off? But then the hunting party never even went after deer-Gwen.
Speaking of Mithian, I also love her. I sometimes wonder if her perfection almost makes her a Mary Sue. I mean, even Mithian knows to look to Merlin to (emotionally) assess situations. For example, when Arthur and Merlin look at each other gravely upon Arthur’s finding the ring, Mithian knows to look to Merlin to try to understand the situation. Merlin may not be forthcoming, but Mithian can gauge the situation through Merlin just as we do.
A few more thoughts. First, I think it looked like poor Eoghan was strangled? Well, the redness would’ve been higher up his neck, but that was always my impression. But then, R&M talked about Agravaine hitting him with the butt of a knife? They really could not decide how they wanted poor Eoghan to die.
Others may have covered this already, but I thought I would spell out all of the kingdom’s/royalty we have met to give us a better sense of what all the lands to unite may be. Obviously we have Camelot. There’s Odin’s kingdom. There’s Cenred’s kingdom, which who knows who owns it now. I feel like Odin may have gotten it because I remember being confused about where exactly Ealdor was- Cenred vs Odin’s kingdom. There’s Lord Bayard of Mercia from “The Poisoned Chalice”. There’s King Olaf and his daughter Princess Vivian, then King Alined who was the antagonist in “Sweet Dreams”. Poor Princess Elena of Gawant and her father Lord Godwin from “The Changling”. Lady Catrina of the House of Tregor (wherever that is). Not sure if Sophia and Aulfric from “The Gates of Avalon” were impersonating actual royals from some place. There’s Queen Annis. And of course, Princess Mithian. *spoiler!* I think we will even meet more in Season 5? I’m sure this list is not exhaustive, but it is all I can think of at the moment. If all these people came from different kingdoms, then that sure is a lot more than five kingdoms. Maybe there is overlap, but still- Arthur has his work cut out for him.
Finally, with regards to Michelle’s comment about seeding stuff throughout the show, it’s a good thing Arthur never became that leek farmer, because there is no seeding in this show lol. Looking forward to the season finale and wrap-up!
10th May 2021 @ 1:14 pm
It’s interesting you say that about the secret talks Arthur’s been having, because honstely, I do not think that the “corresponding for months” has anything to do with how long Gwen’s been gone. I think he was working on this peace treaty for a very long time (as you would be, with something quite so complicated and contested) and they were finally getting somewhere in agreeing to acceptable terms for both parties, and then the Gwen thing happened, so in the last couple of days of negotiation Arthur then threw in the marriage, to strengthen the already worked out and almost signed agreement.
Obviously, I could be wrong, but I really don’t think it’s been longer than at most a few weeks.
— If only he remembered his ye olde photocopier trick, then he may not have chosen THIS moment to try to out Agravaine. —
also, honestly, even without Merlin remembering that he’s magically photocopied stuff before… Merlin HAD to, because that nobility seal had to be *perfect*. Art forgery levels of perfect. Morgana on the other hand could just re-draw the map by hand. And really, all they need to know is where the entrance to the tunnels is in the woods, and where it comes out the other end. So I don’t understand how no one thought that simply getting a good look at the map was enough of a risk…
–Morgana is not good at planning ahead, though, especially on the fly. I often wondered why not turn Gwen into a monster-type thing (maybe not a Lamia, but something), to go kill Arthur? Two birds with one stone?–
nice. that would have worked, yeah. Though I guess it would be possible that Gwen would retain her human mind (she seems to be while she’s a deer, if puddle Gwen can be used as judgement of that) so she wouldn’t have attacked Arthur. And of course she’s still a monster, so Arthur would still be honour bound to hunt her down. But he already is, anyway, so I’m not sure it really would have made all that much difference. And I do like the poetic irony of Arthur accidentally hunting the woman he loves. And clearly so did Morgana.. lol
— wouldn’t Merlin literally saving her from deer-form and/or medically be a great way for her to learn? Yes, yes, we don’t want more people to lie to Arthur and so on. —
which is absolutely the show’s excuse. though I talked about Lancelot finding out about merlin’s magic prior to having any loyalties to Arthur, and therefore it was fine for him to know, and to keep it from Arthur… Letting Gwen find out while not only are her and arthur split up, but she is exiled, and cannot ever return to Camelot? surely perfect! and then, when they get back together and she does return, we can worry about what she feels she needs to do about it, after. But she wouldn’t immediately be in a position where she felt like she had to tell Arthur straight away, or ever. and that would work very nicely… but no, can’t ever find out and can’t ever tell arthur. SIGH
— I sometimes wonder if her perfection almost makes her a Mary Sue.–
honestly, no. I think there’s quite a lot of different aspects that would make me disagree with her being a Mary Sue, if you wanted me to get into this in full on detail, but there’s one simple reason above all… she doesn’t get to marry Arthur.
She doesn’t event get to stick around Camelot and continue being awesome with (or better than) all our other characters. And when she leaves, she doesn’t leave because she is too good for Camelot, and all of our main characters are broken up about her leaving. In fact they happily wave her off and continue on with their lives.
–First, I think it looked like poor Eoghan was strangled? Well, the redness would’ve been higher up his neck, but that was always my impression.–
Which is what Gaius identifies as the bruising from breaking his neck in the fall which… I don’t have any immediate knowledge to hand on whether that type of bruising would look like this… but it’s most definitelty the most confusing death on Merlin EVER! haha
ooooh. I am snatching your kingdom summary for the S4 round up! thanks 😀 also I lol’ed at the seeding joke! haha very true
M Xx
10th May 2021 @ 7:07 pm
I believe it’s mentioned later (spoilers) that King a Lot now owns Cenred’s former kingdom. God knows how or when he took it over, but he’s there long enough to establish a ruthless rep of sticking heads on spikes and is no friend of Camelot. King Lot is someone from the old stories who married Morgause I believe but in this show he only gets a name drop, but it still seems important that he is a bit more than that considering he is the neighbouring kingdom to Camelot.
There definitely must be more than five kingdoms in Briton, but I always thought it worked a bit like the once large British empire, that spread to a third of countries all over the world. Uther must be the high king of at least 5 kingdoms who are spread out. Olaf appears to be a king somewhere in Scandinavia, and many other rulers look either romanised like Uther and Bayard, or Saxon/Jutes like Odin and Cenred. Uther is keeping allies with as many places spread out so he can keep an eye and ear out. He had a flimsy alliance with Cenred that broke. I think he has the select 5 kingdoms because they follow his laws and persecution of magic. Or at least Uther believes that, he clearly would never be allies with Alined if he knew his jester was a wizard.
11th May 2021 @ 2:42 am
I totally thought the secret talks had been going on for months, too! I really thought it had been a few months from Gwen’s banishment!
11th May 2021 @ 2:05 pm
huh. I wonder if anyone has done a suer detailed breakdown of the merlin timeline with all the suggested time jumps and 100% definite confirmed time jumps… seems like something fandom would be all over, so I may do some googling and see what the general consensus on not just this scene but time passing in the show overall is… hmmm
9th May 2021 @ 11:45 pm
Oh, I’m so late with my comments but I guess that will teach me to be more concise with my words. Let’s see…
I am honestly so, so surprised at how highly you have ranked this episode, especially since you seemed to rail against it quite a lot more than The Wicked Day. But maybe it’s just the increasing frustration of the continuing problems of season 4 grating on you?
For me, the most important thing I noticed was that this seemed like two separate ideas/stories meant to fuel two different episodes. The first would be the Gwen/Arthur/Mithian romance that afforded enough material for an entire episode by itself and, if we look at just the Arthur and Merlin scenes from that story in isolation, shows a credible progression of their relationship from ‘Mention her name again and I will banish you!’ to ‘What should I do, Merlin?/Thank you.’
The second idea/story was the entire subplot with Agravaine, the mapmaker’s apprentice, the siege tunnel map and, in some way, even Helios and his gathering of an army. As you observed, the entire plot with Agravaine getting the map is super-complicated, as if they needed to think of ways to blow up this part of the episode to make it carry more weight. However, I would have much preferred if they had ditched that idea and simply opened the next two-parter with Agravaine stabbing the apprentice, stealing the map, giving it to Morgana and Morgana declaring with a characteristic smirk, ‘We are ready.’ Then cut to credits for the final two-parter of season 4!
I believe for various reasons (possibly giving Nathaniel Parker and Katie McGrath something to do), they blew up the second plot and tried to marry it with the more solid romance one. Except we know that no one gets married in this epsiode so it really, really didn’t work for them. The most jarring is, as you have said, the inconsistent portrayals of Arthur’s and Merlin’s relationship, so if we, as so often, make Arthur be the character to suit the story, then at the end of the map subplot, he would be angry and explosive at Merlin, showing a progression from trust/domestic intimacy to annoyance. This is the complete opposite of the direction their relationship develops in the romantic plot (as I have detailed above) which is the reason we have basically two different endings with two different Merlin/Arthur relationships back to back. It also explains why Arthur seems to randomly vacillate between trusting and listening to Merlin and not trusting him.
I wish, wish, wish, we had scrapped the map idea (or reduced its screen time significantly) so that we could have had more Mithian, more background as to the treaty/lands etc, more Gwen and Merlin interaction, the fairy tale element developed and brought to conclusion properly and given Arthur more time to develop from ‘Never mention her name again’ to ‘Without Gwen, the kingdom and my people are worth nothing to me.’ (Actually, I doubt Arthur would EVER say that – it’s such a throwback to 3.10 (Leaving the crown/kingdom for Gwen) and Arthur should have moved on from this!
Just a little musical revelation that, I believe, Danuta has already mentioned. This is one of quite a few episodes where they used the ‘Bond of Sacrifice’ theme quite obsessively and frequently, often in places that have nothing to do with sacrifice. It is very emotional music, first appearing at the death of Balinor in 2.13. I believe it is often overused in episodes where the makers tried to compensate a lack of emotional coherency in their writing. (There is another few episodes in season 5 where I literally thought: Stop playing the same theme over and over again! I get it: I am meant to feel emotionally involved but right now I just feel patronised!)
Like everyone here, I am a massive, massive Mithian fan; however, I have to say that, unlike many, I am of the rare breed of Merlin and Mithian shippers (True colours hoisted!) Oh, that scene in the hallway is just glorious and I love how Colin plays his realisation that Mithian is a good person in her own right, not just a faceless opponent to Gwen and her fate. SPOILER: In future episodes, my Merthian shipping will be further confirmed, so look forward to that. Also, any good suggestions for Merthian fanfiction, please pass these my way. I have read a lot but there is always a chance I may have missed something. 😊
I love everyone’s reactions to Mithian’s beauty when she first unveils herself but I like even more that we very quickly subvert the idea that it is her beauty that makes her a perfect princess/match. As soon as Mithian opens her mouth, her frankness, dignity and humour win you over much more than her face and I love that Arthur is so nonplussed at Mithian’s forthrightness. I think we can draw a parallel here between Merlin/Arthur and Helios. All three men are tempted to underestimate the women (Mithian and Gwen) by reducing them just to their looks or status. Obviously, this lasts only a couple of seconds for Arthur, probably a little longer for Merlin since he sees Mithian as obstructive to Gwen and Arthur’s fate. Helios only learns when Gwen has already escaped with the information to carry it to Arthur. It’s so, so sad that Gwen’s suffering, bravery and information achieves nothing. That would have really landed the message.
I think we also have to draw parallels between Mithian and Morgana, especially in her season 1 and 2 princess in Camelot persona. Obviously, both women are nobly born, beautiful and skilled at being noblewomen; however, Mithian is much gentler in her approach, measured and thoughtful, seems to be confident in herself yet humble enough to recognise and treat those below her with kindness and equity. Morgana certainly was kind, but she was always the lady of the castle. She was always proud and her twisted pride and character is never more poignantly set in contrast to Mithian’s behaviour (for example with Merlin) as when she walks straight past Gwen without even deigning to cast a look at someone she deems beneath her.
Thank you for pointing out that Merlin claiming that it is Gwen’s fate to marry Arthur, marking her as special, takes away her normality: just someone from among the crowd that stood out to Arthur purely because of her personal merit and not blood/skill/destiny. Helios seems to confirm this as well when Gwen says that she is no one and he answers that he ‘finds that hard to believe’ because she is…so pretty? polite? well-spoken? We never find out. And while this is quite a common trope in Arthurian legends (characters trying to disguise as common folk but being recognised as noble and special due to some intrinsic/inborn nobility), I think it is a shame this undermines Gwen’s story and character. Also, what kind of message is this sending to audiences? I don’t need to have it confirmed that Arthur and Gwen should end up together by making Gwen ‘destined’ to be at his side or born to nobility even though she was a blacksmith’s daughter! Like Gwen was a noble cuckoo in the humble nest of a blackbird! The message this is also sending is that she ‘needs’ to be this way, special, destined, to deserve Arthur in the end and have their eventual resuming of their relationship confirmed. I am convinced of the strength of their natural relationship already, I don’t need higher powers to give their blessing to Gwen! (Also, I’ve read the stories! I know that Arthur will marry Gwen!)
Just to close my rant, let me re-quote what I wrote for ‘The Darkest Hour’: ‘So, what are we to take from this? You’ve got to be specifically selected by destiny or have a super-power to count or make a difference? I have lamented these sorts of lessons before. Why can’t we have a thoroughly normal person without any special birth, power or prophecy be significant?’
Some final thoughts:
– I don’t know much about hunting, but if you run through the forest creating a clamour, the beaters and the hunters all coming from the same direction, wouldn’t any animals have heard and fled ages ago?
– Why are Morgana and Helios so concerned about someone overhearing their plotting about attacking Camelot? Aren’t most of Helios’ army mercenaries who will have willingly agreed to that plan when they were hired?
– Agravaine is now the second person (after Lancelot-Shade) that demonstrates the standard Merlin-villain move: draw sword/dagger in order to only use the pommel to knock someone over. Maybe Morgana should run some classes on proper and effective handling of weapons with her minions!
– Why is Arthur so surprised that Mithian loves hunting? From the women we KNOW he has met, he knows that women can fight, hold their own in the outdoors and are very able horsewomen! (He only knows Morgana, Gwen, Elena, Hunith and Morgause – Vivian doesn’t count because he was enchanted – and they all fit the Mithian bill.)
– Once again, I am going to point out a major issue I have with Gwen and her ‘costuming’. Whenever you see Gwen’s hands, she has these perfectly and obviously manicured nails. Perhaps I could make allowances for Gwen in Camelot, especially in season 4 when she appears to be quite an elevated servant in the castle. (It doesn’t explain why she has those hands in season 1 when Morgana points out how the poor girl scrubs her floors etc.) But in this episode, we really, really should be paying attention to her hands which we see all the time as she twists Arthur’s ring around her neck. Someone who is shovelling pigs’ manure DOES NOT HAVE MANICURED FINGERNAILS!
10th May 2021 @ 12:55 am
Sooo… I’m a Merthian shipper on the days when I don’t ship Merthur 😀 I think the crossbow-corridor scene is mainly responsible for that, and then, obviously, all the scenes in season 5.
Here are some fics I lately bookmarked for them:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/504799 – A Royal Wedding by mollrach13, 37k – a longer fic with buildup, sweetness, pining and all 🙂
https://archiveofourown.org/works/917353 – In The Circle of His Arms by rubberglue – 1k – from Mithian’s perspective, her reflecting on the progress of their relationship.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/25858648 – An Unlikely Bond by Impala_Cherry_Trickster – 4k – explicit; Mithian has come to Camelot because her Father intends to marry her off. Luckily, she finds a friend in Merlin (and experiences her first time).
I may have also written something but I’m now plagued by self-doubt so I won’t put the links out so blatantly, I’m TyalanganD on AO3 if anyone’s interested 😛
10th May 2021 @ 12:35 pm
Uhhhh, thanks for the recs!
And thanks for your trust, I’ll start reading your work right away, I’m sure, I’ll be delighted!
11th May 2021 @ 4:57 pm
Oh, I can’t wait to read these, thank you!! Hahaha I love this fandom. And thank you for including your own work, that’s awesome!
11th May 2021 @ 10:22 pm
Thank you for sharing these! There are definitely a few I haven’t read yet. 😄
10th May 2021 @ 1:51 pm
–I am honestly so, so surprised at how highly you have ranked this episode, especially since you seemed to rail against it quite a lot more than The Wicked Day. But maybe it’s just the increasing frustration of the continuing problems of season 4 grating on you?–
I will absolutely admit that the longer season 4 has gone on, the more frustrations have built up, and we may not have been very concise in expressing these frustrations, while making clear that they are all hangover frustrations that are just piling on episode after episode. But actually, love love love LOVE Mithian, and the entire – what you call second idea/story – Helios/Agr/Morg plot is frustrating and pointless and ARGH do I not want it in this episode… but you are shoving it into this episode because you didn’t use the previous 10 episodes to give morgana a proper story and a proper plan. And honestly, that makes me frustrated with season 4 as a whole, not The Hunter’s Heart as an episode. But yes, putting the episodes on the List of Destiny has been really difficult this season, because of the mounting frustration. I really hope we’ll be able to shake that for S5 and actually feel like we’re getting a fresh start. There’s no Agravain, so that’s a GREAT start… right?
— the entire plot with Agravaine getting the map is super-complicated, as if they needed to think of ways to blow up this part of the episode to make it carry more weight. However, I would have much preferred if they had ditched that idea and simply opened the next two-parter with Agravaine stabbing the apprentice, stealing the map, giving it to Morgana and Morgana declaring with a characteristic smirk, ‘We are ready.’ Then cut to credits for the final two-parter of season 4!–
I 100% agree! Someone said a few weeks ago – it may have been CoreyAdara, I’m not absolutely certain so please don’t quote me on that lol – that it’s important to remember that Merlin is still a family TV show and therefore still watched by the 8-12 year olds, who are watching it for the dragons, the magic, the knights, the fighting, and the action. And I certainly agree that that’s why we have story lines like Agravaine’s stabbing and map stealing blown up and drawn out in the way that we do. Whether I agree that that’s the audience the show should be catering to at this point…? that’s a whole different question.
As so many YA fantasy shows have done and keep doing, Merlin tried to address the Marvel market, and doesn’t realise (and when they do, doesn’t appreciate or acknowledge) that it’s actually addressing the 25+ Women and LGBTQ+ market, so just keeps doing the CGI dragons and spy movie plots. That’s very simplified, I do appreciate, but has always been one of my frustrations with the show.
–which is the reason we have basically two different endings with two different Merlin/Arthur relationships back to back.–
that makes a sad amount of sense… that we’ve got these two carbon copy scenes with two entirely different tonalities, because they were the end of two opposite spectrum story lines, that we running parallel throughout the episode… huh. bad plan guys!! ::facepalm::
–I believe it is often overused in episodes where the makers tried to compensate a lack of emotional coherency in their writing. (There is another few episodes in season 5 where I literally thought: Stop playing the same theme over and over again! I get it: I am meant to feel emotionally involved but right now I just feel patronised!)–
I am the most useless when it comes to recognising and putting together pieces of music (basically, if it doesn’t have words, my brain can’t hold on to it for more than 8 seconds, which means I enjoy it, but immediately forget about it). But even *I* have started to roll my eyes at the repetition of pieces of music in Merlin, and your explanation makes that make so much sense!!
–Like everyone here, I am a massive, massive Mithian fan; however, I have to say that, unlike many, I am of the rare breed of Merlin and Mithian shippers (True colours hoisted!)–
I saw that Danuta posted a whole bunch of fic links and you better believe I will be reading ALL OF THEM, the second we’re on hiatus!!! haha
Also, I very proudly multi-ship, so I don’t even have to nail my colours to the mast, I can just happily skip from one OTP to the next lol
–In future episodes, my Merthian shipping will be further confirmed, so look forward to that.–
I will, because I CANNOT REMEMBER. So that’s going to be awesome!
— It’s so, so sad that Gwen’s suffering, bravery and information achieves nothing. That would have really landed the message.–
it’s just one in a long looooong list of ways in which Gwen’s being done dirty by the show, isn’t it? =/
–Helios seems to confirm this as well when Gwen says that she is no one and he answers that he ‘finds that hard to believe’ because she is…so pretty? polite? well-spoken? We never find out.–
just like ‘you’re too pretty to be someone who mucks out pigs’… one does not in any way relate to the other, what are you on about man??? If the show was more historically accurate, I do appreciate that there would be honest reasons for the above things, such as having the money to invest in nice tailored clothes, and the time to invest in looking after yourself, brushing your hair, taking scented baths so on and so forth, and the leisure to not work, or certainly not work with your hands, and therefore not have calluses, scrapes, and bruises. which of course is how she was “found out” the last time she was kidnapped. and I don’t even massively mind that she’s lost her calluses apparently, as we do massively fail to show us whether she is still doing castle work, but it is likely that she isn’t, or very very little… but yeah. Merlin is not that show, so when you use “logic” like this you’re assuming we will make the “historically accurate” leap which… well… no.
–Just to close my rant, let me re-quote what I wrote for ‘The Darkest Hour’: ‘So, what are we to take from this? You’ve got to be specifically selected by destiny or have a super-power to count or make a difference? I have lamented these sorts of lessons before. Why can’t we have a thoroughly normal person without any special birth, power or prophecy be significant?’–
🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
– I don’t know much about hunting, but if you run through the forest creating a clamour, the beaters and the hunters all coming from the same direction, wouldn’t any animals have heard and fled ages ago?–
lol yeah, they got a bit over excited with the beaters, didn’t they? especially because while all the noise and hard riding and beating is going on, no one actually has a weapon at the ready, so anything that does get scared out of a bush will defintiely be gone before even Leon can get his crossbow in place…
also when we see Merlin do the beating (which is utterly half arsed, and I thoroughly believe on purposely so!) he swings his bat at some tall grass… not sure what he’s expecting to hide in there, other than maybe a butterfly? lol
– Why are Morgana and Helios so concerned about someone overhearing their plotting about attacking Camelot? Aren’t most of Helios’ army mercenaries who will have willingly agreed to that plan when they were hired?–
except Helios’ people are also mostly made up out of kidnapped people from villages… which is certainly what the opening scene implies, and his statement that ‘the army is not ready yet’ – but then in the finale they are all going to be uniform looking mercenaries with top notch battle skills… it’s a mess!
— draw sword/dagger in order to only use the pommel to knock someone over. Maybe Morgana should run some classes on proper and effective handling of weapons with her minions!–
I actually double checked a few of the S4 episodes by high speed scrubbing the episode, and was going to give Merlin way more kills before realising that no, the show really does make a very thorough distinction between Pommel, Slice, and Stab. Sadly it fails to carry that distinction through to any logical conclusion in regards to ‘is the person dead now? no? then maybe try the other end of the sword you moron!!’, but there’s still hope for season 5? maybe…? lol
-– Why is Arthur so surprised that Mithian loves hunting? From the women we KNOW he has met, he knows that women can fight, hold their own in the outdoors and are very able horsewomen! (He only knows Morgana, Gwen, Elena, Hunith and Morgause – Vivian doesn’t count because he was enchanted – and they all fit the Mithian bill.)–
even if you do count Vivian and Sophie, that still skews hugely in favour of useful women who do stuff!
Maybe he’s just spent too much time with Merlin, and Merlin’s very vocal dislike of hunting, so he’s surrised when anyone actually doesn’t whine and complain when the word hunting is mentioned? lol
– But in this episode, we really, really should be paying attention to her hands which we see all the time as she twists Arthur’s ring around her neck. Someone who is shovelling pigs’ manure DOES NOT HAVE MANICURED FINGERNAILS!–
I can confirm! my nails look awful, my knuckled are cracked, and my skin is dry!!
M Xx
12th May 2021 @ 5:06 pm
I really hope we’ll be able to shake that for S5 and actually feel like we’re getting a fresh start. –
True, no Agravaine next season but, boy, you are optimistic! 🙂
Merlin tried to address the Marvel market, and doesn’t realise (and when they do, doesn’t appreciate or acknowledge) that it’s actually addressing the 25+ Women and LGBTQ+ market, so just keeps doing the CGI dragons and spy movie plots. –
I think that’s really accurate – they seem to have been a aware a little bit that their audience has ‘grown up’ with the show (they mention it in interviews), but I still have the feeling that the producers were on some significant level disconnected from their audience and the appeal that audience saw in their show. I think this will become even more apparent in season 5 but it’s bascially what you said: they wanted to cater to their audience but failed to fully analyse what that audience was, what they expected or loved about the show.
But even *I* have started to roll my eyes at the repetition of pieces of music in Merlin, and your explanation makes that make so much sense!! –
This is something that drives me up the wall: music is such a beautiful and subtle tool and needs extreme skill and artistry to use well and to great impact. Unfortunately, I think the Merlin showmakers didn’t appreciate that this tool in the hands of anyone less than a master can break everything just as easily as it can create a Mona Lisa. I remember an interview where they said that they had no more music composed for season 5 because they already had hours and hours of previous soundtrack. While on an budgeting and efficiency level, I understand, it just shows the clear disregard for the fact that the pieces of music they had, had been composed for specific emotional scenes, characters and effect. Basically, they thought ‘copy and paste’ is okay and, judging that hardly ever do we have a moment without underlying soundtrack, they also thought, better is more.
13th May 2021 @ 5:16 pm
—True, no Agravaine next season but, boy, you are optimistic! 🙂—
the joy of complete lack of any memory I guess… lol seriously, I thought I could get an early start on the covers, so just played through the first 4 episodes, no sound and no subtitles, and while there’s striking visuals I do remember, I am genuinly shocked at how little memory I have. Though I am aware that you are not a big fan of season 5 overall, so that does worry me and make me think I may be being too optimistic… =/
–I remember an interview where they said that they had no more music composed for season 5 because they already had hours and hours of previous soundtrack.–
oh WOW, I had not been aware of that… I mean, I’m not surprised, actually, but at the same time… WOW. that’s not great, is it? 🙁
12th May 2021 @ 8:32 pm
he swings his bat at some tall grass… not sure what he’s expecting to hide in there, other than maybe a butterfly? lol –
Perhaps that’s exactly what Merlin hopes to find – something to make this day a little more pleasant and annoy Arthur because one simply cannot fire a crossbow at a butterfly. Oh, well, maybe Sir Leon could.
Sadly it fails to carry that distinction through to any logical conclusion in regards to ‘is the person dead now? no? then maybe try the other end of the sword you moron!!’, but there’s still hope for season 5? maybe…? lol –
Again, how nicely optimistic of you. (Sorry, season 4, definitely NOT my favourite as you can tell.)
I can confirm! my nails look awful, my knuckled are cracked, and my skin is dry!! –
If only this was 10 years ago: the show clearly needed people like us to point out these important inconsistencies. I know, these complaints may seem petty but I think this level of detail distinguishes between a show made with utter love and care and a show where quite a few things are overlooked or brushed under the carpet, hoping that none of the viewers will notice. I do notice and I think it’s a really easy thing to fiy. It doesn’t even have to be terribly dirty kinds of nails. Just, not manicured! (I appreciate they were super short on time but…I don’t, this just bugs me. Like women can’t possibly ever be shown with bad fingernails on TV. It dismisses Gwen’s hard work and is just so anachronistic!)
10th May 2021 @ 10:13 pm
Helios’ lines about Gwen’s attractiveness and thinking there was something more to her than ‘nothing’ based on seeing through her muddy face that she was pretty, reminds me of something Gwaine said when he first met Gwen. Obviously he’s being a jack the lad with a pretty girl, trying the pick up lines on her, he did say something like ‘your name must be princess Esmeralda because you look like a princess’. So what, only royal ladies are beautiful? Dunno if it’s an odd message for the times, or the writers being very meta with how they know the link between beauty and worth was royalty back then..
12th May 2021 @ 4:58 pm
Oh, that’s an interesting link to make, especially considering that Gwaine himself is actually secretly noble (or at least th eson of a knight). So, he may actually have made the acquaintance of princesses or noble ladies in his previous life. Helios, on the other hand, really isn’t noble (I presume) and the tone and intention behind his statement is very different to Gwaine’s.
I think the idea of intrinstic nobility or noble qualities is quite an ancient one, typical, for certain, in Medieval Romance writings. However, is it really what a 21st-century show wants us to consider, especially for a character like Gwen who has previously been the ‘common/normal’ (in the positive sense) one among the lot. I just think it takes away from Gwen’s arc and character and where she ultimately ends up if you claim some sort of bigger power, destiny or instrinstic superiority for her.
9th May 2021 @ 9:28 pm
Like everyone, I think Mithian is awesome. There’s not much else to add that hasn’t been covered on that score, so I’ll just leave it at that 😆
Two things that stood out to me on rewatching this episode: first, Morgana definitely has the cooler magic. Several times now she’s demonstrated more technical knowledge of magic and done more complicated spells than Merlin, and it felt she got to show off more in this episode. Meanwhile Merlin is just using his magic to…embarrass Arthur. Yeah…
Second, there’s an interesting thread on the uses of female sexuality running through this whole plot. Ruth and Michelle have definitely pointed out, and very well, how the writing never takes an actual position on sexuality of any kind and then inadvertently blunders into mostly negative representations of it; the butt of jokes about old people sex, sexy women being evil, etc. But this episode kept making me think of the ways that female sexuality is actually useful to the female characters.
Mithian, for instance, is using her beauty, grace, and status as a princess to make an advantageous political alliance through marriage. At the same time, she delights in subverting his ideas about what a princess is like, with the hunting and the, uh…belching, all while being undeniably feminine in the offing. Gwen, in a truly awful position, understands that she has to play the obsequious and appeasing feminine role in order to stay alive long enough to escape. It’s her beauty (and yes, her adorable belly button) that helps buy her time. As someone else already commented, the fact that she gets turned into a doe during a pagan springtime festival also feels laden with associations to the archetypical feminine. Then there’s Morgana, who appears to be fully aware of how Agravaine and Helios view her, and who in turn views their appetites as tools she can manipulate, albeit with obvious disdain. In the scene between her and Helios – when he more or less sounds like he’s coming on to her – during the close up of Katie McGraw’s face it’s like she manages to convey surprise, disgust, and cunning in just a few moments. Well done, Katie!
I’m not saying this episode accidentally became super feminist, because that’s not true 😅 I just thought that was an interesting through line.
Also, I love the cover art this week! Wow, Michelle! So well done.
Ok, ok, last thing: the scene where Arthur finds the ring in the forest and he and Merlin just stare at each other…jeez. That’s the shit that kept me watching five seasons of this hot mess! They’re so good! Oy.
10th May 2021 @ 2:00 pm
Interesting notes on femininity and how it’s used. Defiinitely something I feel we’ll be talking about in the round up, so I’ve saved your comment for that, thank you!
–Also, I love the cover art this week! Wow, Michelle! So well done.–
thank you so much! I’ve been doing a lot of wildlife live drawing, so was looking forward to doing this cover, where I could just do a deer, which would be so much easier than real humans that people know really well! hahaha Glad you like it 🙂
–Ok, ok, last thing: the scene where Arthur finds the ring in the forest and he and Merlin just stare at each other…jeez. That’s the shit that kept me watching five seasons of this hot mess! They’re so good! Oy.–
and isn’t that why we’re all still here, 10 years on? gosh, they had some magic going, didnt they?
M Xx
9th May 2021 @ 7:31 pm
As far as I can tell, Gwen’s banishment happened mere weeks ago and yet, Arthur has been in negotiations with Nemeth for weeks and has concluded those negotiations with a proposal of marriage. It is simply astounding how quickly Arthur moves on and once again, without Merlin’s input, Arthur is making a short-sighted and heartless decision. It’s a decision that would make his father proud. It’s interesting to consider how if Mithian had been Uther’s choice, instead of Elena, whether Arthur would have eagerly married her with open arms. And it could have saved us suffering all the angst Gwen and Arthur’s relationship has been fraught with.
From the lifting of her veil, Arthur is smitten. And what is there not to be pleasantly surprised by; she’s beautiful and confident. She has the right pedigree, and she has the natural poise of a Queen. And just like that Guinevere is all forgotten. Before he finds the ring, you do not see a glimpse of hesitation in Arthur’s attraction to Mithian. Not a hint of guilt at betraying the person he professed undying love to when Uther had banished her. Turns out “I will never love another” does not mean, I cannot marry another.
What most confounds me are those that think that Arthur and Mithian would make the better match. Aesthetically, I suppose they are better suited. He is exceptionally handsome, and she is exceptionally beautiful. But as everyone in the audience knows, Gwen has been cruelly thrown to the wolves through absolutely no fault of her own and just because Arthur does not know, doesn’t mean that Gwen does not deserve to be unconditionally loved by the man she assuredly unconditionally loves. So many times, she has forgiven his ineptitude. First, he gives up the thought of her because his father would not understand. And then he agrees that she is “not appropriate” after all their trials and tribulations and her having nursed Uther for a year, the same man that had her father killed. And then he banishes her without any regard to what kind of dangers her banishment exposes her to: hunger, the elements, poverty, magical creatures, slave traders, bandits, Morgana and now Arthur’s confident aim followed by Mithian’s gleeful success. We all know the injustices Gwen has suffered through again and again, and yet she forgives Arthur at every turn. But after a couple of days of seeing them together, some are ready to forget all that Gwen has sacrificed and suffered and say that Mithian is better for Arthur than Gwen? Maybe it’s the other way around, Arthur is better for Mithian because Gwen deserves better.
She is the only one that continues to suffer daily for an act that was the result of a cruel enchantment meant to punish Arthur and yet Gwen’s “alleged” betrayal does not have the intended affect Morgana had planned for, a devasted Arthur, devasted enough to render him useless to rule. Oh no, not only is he not useless but suddenly he is making decisions that will strengthen his kingdom with an alliance that will make Camelot harder to beat. So maybe Morgana’s aim is not so much for Arthur not to rule but for Gwen not to rule alongside him? Is that it? Because Morgana doesn’t seem to be disturbed enough at the prospect to Arthur marrying “up” and the affect that could have on her aim to conquer and rule Camelot to do anything to stop this new and “advantageous” marriage.
Gwen is the only one that has a pure heart and even having suffered through untold hardships, her first thought at discovering Morgana’s plans is to help the man she loves. The man that turned a page on their love without batting an eye. He professed to love her and only her and yet, he unlike Gwen, chooses to betray his love. That is until he is reminded of his duplicity.
“How can I love someone who has betrayed me” only she didn’t betray him and I know he doesn’t know that but that is no excuse for the callous way he assumed the worst. Never considering that something was amiss, especially when Gwen behaved in a way so contrary to her character. By now, you have guessed that Arthur, as written, does not thrill me and I am definitely team Gwen. His love for Gwen waxes and wanes too much to be confident but I am happy that at the end he chooses not to marry Mithian only because Gwen deserves a chance to be with the man she loves.
10th May 2021 @ 2:23 pm
I talked about the peace negotiations in a comment to Kate above, because basically I don’t think the negotiations are is in any way directly related to how long Gwen’s been gone, or to how long Arthur knew he was going to marry Mithian. I think he’s been working on the peace treaty for a long time, and they finally reached acceptable terms for both parties, and then the Gwen thing happened, so in the last couple of days of negotiation Arthur then threw in the marriage, to strengthen the already worked out and almost signed agreement.
However, as we mentioned in the episode, it *is* a political marriage, and it would be great if what we got from Arthur was any indication that he’s agreeing to this political marriage because his long faught for love match did not work out, and this is what love got him… so he might as well use his own person and stratigic value he has, to strengthen the kingdom, now he’s given up on love. Which would also bundle in what you mentioned about how “I will never love another” does not mean ‘I cannot marry another.’ – because this is a political arrangement, and Arthur is marrying Mithian precisely because he will never love another… it wouldn’t be conflicting at all. However because the episode has romantic Arthur/Mithian notes, it makes everything really confusing. =/
— So maybe Morgana’s aim is not so much for Arthur not to rule but for Gwen not to rule alongside him? Is that it? Because Morgana doesn’t seem to be disturbed enough at the prospect to Arthur marrying “up” and the affect that could have on her aim to conquer and rule Camelot to do anything to stop this new and “advantageous” marriage.–
Completely agree. Again, it’s part of the inconsistency that we get with Morgana, where she seems to constantly forget that she wants *Arthur*’s throne, not Gwens. So whether Arthur marries or not, and frankly who he marries, should make literally no difference to Morgana what so ever.
The fact that it does is what leads me to look at her dream of the Arthur/Gwen marriage, and that she got a general feeling of ‘Camelot is strong, and sunlit, and glowing, and prospering’ and all of that is happening, because of the vision I had, so if I can just change one element of that vision (Gwen) it will not come to pass. And just like the Crystal Cave episode taught us, prophecies are not that simple, and not that easy to avoid.
however again, we don’t lean on that prophecy enough to make that explicit, so it just ends up muddled and messy. 🙁
–By now, you have guessed that Arthur, as written, does not thrill me and I am definitely team Gwen. His love for Gwen waxes and wanes too much to be confident but I am happy that at the end he chooses not to marry Mithian only because Gwen deserves a chance to be with the man she loves.–
Arthur, as written, is one of the most inconsistent characters on television, and the Arthur/Gwen relationship was brought into the story and dropped from the story whenever the writers saw fit, so hugely suffered from that complete lack of consistency, in addition to Arthur’s inconsistency.
Endlessly frustrating. Sigh.
M Xx
9th May 2021 @ 10:34 am
I did like this episode! I wish the Agravaine of it all did not exist, but although the Gwen story was problematic, I did love her having so much screen time and having a proper adventure by herself. The one thing I want is for all the characters to understand the pain she has gone through. When Arthur holds that ring, I am glad to see t=him so shocked I want him to be horrified and realise the ramifications of what he has done. Gwen has suffered so much from all the Pendragons at this point, and she has it in her heart to forgive, but this time she is truly alone for it all and I need that to be recognised by the characters.
Mithian is just the perfect character this episode! We have all said how bold and graceful she is, but I also love how respectfully she enters this world we have watched for 4 seasons. We see her really observing and sussing out Arthur, and her conversation with Merlin demonstrates how well she understand the way it all works. I think this is so lovely from an audience perspective because she sees it and is intrigued just as we are and have been.
These past few episodes, Merlin has has multiple one-sided conversations with Gaius where he complains and is really harsh. I really hate them!!! He is just rude and it undermines the truth of what he’s feeling; we’ve had serious conversations about how unappreciated he is, but to put them in this format isn’t fun or cool!
With Merlin’s slightly ridiculous attempts to embarrass Arthur, I think he does it because it’s the emotional aspect of their relationship he feels is wrong and an insult to Gwen. He wants to make Arthur self-conscious and realise how he is still in love with Gwen. The political match seems to be of no concern to Merlin, but he does want to prevent any emotional connection forming between them- that is, until he speaks to Mithian and realises she is not just a replacement Guinevere.
Morgana’s decision to go the poetic rather than practical route for getting rid of Gwen feels very true to her character at this point. My heart literally jumps when Arthur misses and then Mithian takes aim! It’s a great moment. I interpret it as Mithian potentially being the final thing that kills the possibility of Arthur getting back with Gwen, and also I think it personifies the harshness that Merlin perceives. Even though she is so brilliant and is so honest and gentle (rather than sneaking and scheming to steal Arthur’s heart and replace Gwen), Merlin sees her bring there is wrong and cruel, so this violent action definitely reflects the emotional significance of her coming to Camelot and marrying the King when he loves another.
Arthur appears to me in this episode to have put on a new face. He is overly aggressive to Merlin, because Merlin represents Gwen’s side and the side Arthur wants to choose but can’t, and he seems to be far too much in love with Mithian from someone who has lost the love of their life two weeks ago. But, this is because he has chosen a new version of himself and is rejecting his past idea of who he might be. Gwen’s ring is a reminder of the guilt and broken heart and he knows he cannot keep it all up. When he calls off the marriage, it feels like even more than it is out of hope for seeing Gwen again, it is because he feels he owes Mithian more than that. Because she is so wonderful, he can’t be with her because she is a person who wants to be wholly loved and he knows he will not be able to do that. Her line that she hopes to one day be loved as he loves Gwen doesn’t even feel all damsel-in-distress-y because that feels like the same lonely heart that we see in Arthur, how his rank makes love so difficult.
9th May 2021 @ 1:59 pm
I love all of these points, yes! Especially this, “Gwen has suffered so much from all the Pendragons at this point, and she has it in her heart to forgive, but this time she is truly alone for it all and I need that to be recognised by the characters.”
I’ve never thought of that way before, and now I totally agree. That, along with Kai’s comments, too, about the violence Gwen goes through in this episode…poor woman. It really puts into perspective her strength of character, because she can go through all that and still love Arthur. I’d like to see some recognition of that, too!
9th May 2021 @ 7:59 am
Just a quick note on the Mithian of it all:
I like her, she’s strong and warm – although her calling Arthur a poor loser when he’s clearly having some kind of emotional moment during the hunt was a little cutting. ouch!
Despite my regard for Mithian, I don’t like the idea of her marriage to Arthur because I tend to think of her as basically a feminine version of Arthur. She’s accomplished, beautiful, shares similar interests – and even (mild SPOILER) is missing a mother.
Even if Mithian is all these wonderful things, when it comes to picking a partner, who wants to be paired with yourself? It’s a little boring. Mithian and Arthur look very pretty together, but really, she doesn’t bring anything new to the table.
I think this relates to the idea of Mithian being drawn as the legendary Guinevere, as Kaycee pointed out. The story of legendary Arthur and Guinevere is not interesting in itself, but only in its destruction through Lancelot. BBC Merlin, for better or for worse, didn’t follow this narrative. Instead, we have our own dear daughter-of-a-blacksmith Gwen, who brings a whole new perspective to the top echelons of Camelot.
On a completely different note –
this episode gave me the feeling that the story (universe? God? Destiny?) was punishing Gwen for her ‘bad behaviour’ – Especially when set up in opposition to Arthur having a lovely time with his Gwen-replacement. This made me feel so sad – it’s so unfair.
I try not to think of Gwen’s trauma, but as well as being banished and supposedly betraying Arthur, at some point she has had to learn that Lancelot killed himself because of their actions together. That’s seriously messed up and I can see why the show doesn’t deal with that, but it seems extra cruel to pile on rape threats and violence into Gwen’s life.
Like I said, I just try not to think about it……
9th May 2021 @ 2:37 pm
As to Gwen’s suffering – I will now sound pretty vague, and I’m sorry for that, but I have heard of a book about characters of color in TV shows and media with a whole chapter dedicated to BBC Merlin’s Gwen. I think the folks on Merlisten talked about it in their episode on race in Merlin, and they said that the author of the book connects the fact that Gwen isn’t given screentime or opportunity to go through trauma with the stereotype of a black woman as the one who’s always strong, even though she goes through terrible things. Gwen is hardly allowed moments of weakness, and despite all, always has to stay with a positive attitude. I can’t give proper justice to the argument, so I recommend that episode of the podcast, but what you said reminded me of that and I thought it interesting to bring it up here.
10th May 2021 @ 1:01 pm
– I try not to think of Gwen’s trauma, but as well as being banished and supposedly betraying Arthur, at some point she has had to learn that Lancelot killed himself because of their actions together. –
Oh! You’re absolutely right. I never thought about Gwen learning about Lancelot because in my head he was just Morgana’s pet zombie at this point. But sure, Gwen doesn’t know this, and so she has to learn that the love of her life (yeah, I admit, I ship Gwencelot much more than I ship Arwen, just because) killed himself after they both got caught red-handed. What a terrible, terrible thing to imagine.
I’m not sure she has to know at this point though, but I can’t remember something like this for the rest of the show at all. I fear this idea will haunt me some time.
9th May 2021 @ 2:47 am
Hi!
Well…. I have watched this episode three times in the past 2 week and still can’t find anything incredibly revolutionary to say about it. I didn’t even take notes because I really just feel “meh” about the episode.
I, like everyone else, like Princess Mithian and actually think her and Arthur go well together. I like how Mithian is smart, witty and kind. I like how she is intuitive (She must be to know Arthur listens to Merlin above anyone else since we see no evidence of this in front of her). I like how she approaches Merlin (looking dashing with a crossbow) in the corridor and asks him to give her a chance. She is wonderful!
The thing that really bugs me about this episode is how truly mean Arthur is to Merlin. He threatens to exile him more than once and yells at him multiple times. It just makes me really really sad (because let’s be honest, I am here for the bromance). At first, I didn’t understand where this anger towards Merlin was coming from, but once I watched the episode three times, I started to believe that maybe 1) Merlin reminds Arthur too much of Gwen 2) He is trying to repress the hurt & vulnerable part of himself and thus pushes away “the other side of the same coin” that usually makes him self reflect
Merlin has been there from the beginning and has known all along how in love Arthur was (and is) with Gwen. Arthur is trying desperately to push his hurt and anger away and move on and lead his kingdom as best as he can. He does that by distancing himself from Merlin (Not letting Merlin in on the months of negotiations with Nemeth and refusing to discuss his feelings about Gwen with Merlin) because he doesn’t want to face it. He tries to move on as best he can in the ways his father taught him (You should have a strategic marriage. You rule alone and trust no one >except, of course, his uncle🙄<).
Even though I believe Arthur and Mithian would be a good match, I don't think Arthur would become what all the prophecies claim and "the once and future king" if he married her. His heart will always be Gwen's, thus he would continue to push Merlin away, refuse to self reflect and probably be an unhappy and crummy king. He would be so unhappy that he probably would exile Merlin to get some relief, but we all know Arthur would get nowhere without Merlin.
My favorite scene is when Arthur is sitting in his chambers contemplating life. Bradley looks absolutely beautiful (I stand by Serious Bradley = Most Handsome Bradley). I love how even though Arthur has treated Merlin like shit, Merlin still walks in there to check on Arthur. (Also, Colin is stunning as well 😍). Finally, we see the true Arthur! Finally he lets his guard down and lets Merlin back in and finally acknowledges "the other side of the same coin," by having some self reflection. I LOVE the "Thank you, Merlin," at the end. I almost sigh of relief at the end of the scene because the world feels right in Bromanceville again.
(It is interesting that Merlin says "my lord" and "sire" during this whole conversation and I guess it is because there isn't a forest, fire and log to be had?)
Anyways, can't wait for next week's podcast! I really enjoy the next two episodes!
P.S.
I LOVE MY DRAWING OF MERLIN Y'ALL SENT ME! Might be the scene where Colin looks the most handsome! THANK YOU!
10th May 2021 @ 1:33 pm
-Well…. I have watched this episode three times in the past 2 week and still can’t find anything incredibly revolutionary to say about it. I didn’t even take notes because I really just feel “meh” about the episode.-
I’m so glad there is someone else who feels this way. I will not comment on my own at all on this episode, because I really don’t like it. I think, I’d rather watch “a remedy to cure all ills” again than this LOL
And I really do love Mithian, too, but there is so little of her between the soup spilling and burping and the Agravaine/Morgana blabedibla and the sad Gwen-Arc (and I always wait for more of the “Brother and Sister” fairytale than just the changing into a deer) and the strangely alienated version of Merlin and Arthur that it really isn’t enough.
And as I said in another reply: I can’t ship Arwen, mostly because I really love Gwencelot and Merthur, but I really would enjoy Merlin/Mithian/Arthur in a careful, adult, loving, politically responsible triangle LOL. This part of the episode is therefore also lost to me.
So, no. This one isn’t for me at all.
10th May 2021 @ 3:07 pm
you are not alone, we have had other comments saying that the episode just left people cold and nothing seemed to be happening, which I do think is because they tried to do two things, and excecuted them both poorly =/
–I started to believe that maybe 1) Merlin reminds Arthur too much of Gwen 2) He is trying to repress the hurt & vulnerable part of himself and thus pushes away “the other side of the same coin” that usually makes him self reflect–
someone else mentioned merlin reminding arthur of gwen and the gwen part of his life, which I think is probably true, though it would have really been helped if merlin and gwen actually got a scene before gwen left and therefore we as the audience were clearer on where merlin stands in regards to the whole gwen thing. But yes, I most definitely agree with arthur pushing away merlin / the emotional side of the coin. merlin is the only person who won’t back down from confronting and calling arthur out, and right now, arthur cannot deal with that. I think that works really well. I just wish we saw more of it in the actual episode.
–Anyways, can’t wait for next week’s podcast! I really enjoy the next two episodes!–
…
we enjoyed one out of the two episodes… hahaha
hope you won’t hate us after this week’s podcast!!! remember we sent you a nice drawing of colin looking really really handsome!!! LOL
M Xx
11th May 2021 @ 2:56 am
Oh boy! Now, I am nervous…. I’ll just be sure to have the drawing nearby as I listen to you rip apart another episode that I like…. 😂
I also have money on ya’ll not liking the episode I like the most of this two episode finale! 😄
11th May 2021 @ 2:02 pm
well now I don’t know which way to hope, because on the one hand I don’t want to hate the episode you like, but on the other hand I want you to win and cash in! hahaha
Xx
9th May 2021 @ 12:51 am
To start, I want to express a note of appreciation for this season of D&C because season 4 Merlin is one that I’ve struggled with: certain moments are grilled into my mind (Lancelot’s death, Gwen’s banishment, and then the finale double episode, I remember these moments so clearly), but Agravaine being the biggest pain has made me so uninterested in rewatching most of the episodes. That was until this season’s D&C! I’m so excited that in the process of listening/re-watching, I realized there are some truly awesome episodes I completely overlooked because…well, Agravaine. His Father’s Son, Secret Sharer, Herald, I’d rewatch any of these now. So that’s very cool for me, ty 🙂
I loved Ruth and Michelle’s take on this episode, and I’ve loved reading what others are saying about it. The thoughtless Orientalism with Helios is really troublesome and frustrating, and I really wish the show made more of an effort to talk about different cultures, show difference in/across Albion, without falling into lazy exoticism. I think it makes sense that Gwen was given new clothes in the beginning, but it is so obvious that the costume department didn’t put nearly as much care into researching historical fabrics/patterns that would remotely make sense for her time with Helios (compared to Gwen’s beautifully stitched dresses and working smocks from earlier episodes in Camelot). The sequins and mesh of her magenta outfit just look cheap, thoughtless, and Halloween-y in comparison.
That aside, there is a beautiful moment when Morgana is tracking Gwen in the woods (the morning after Gwen camps at night, wakes in a panic and starts running again). Morgana sees the broken twig, and she flashes such an evil smirk before she catches herself and almost grimaces/growls as if she’s telling herself to stop gloating and get on with the chase (concentrate, Morgana!). It’s perfect, and Katie does this so well.
RE Arthur finding and staring at Gwen’s ring in the woods…this is so moving, but it’s also so infuriating because it would seem like Arthur is taken aback when he sees the ring discarded in the woods, as if he only now realizes that Gwen could very likely have encountered trouble and/or have been harmed after he banished her from the only home she’s known. Seeing the ring in the woods, clearly torn off her neck, forces Arthur to realize that Gwen could actually be in danger, and that she may be dead. In Lancelot du Lac, when Gwen asks “but where will I go?” and Arthur responds “I am truly sorry,” it really did seem like Arthur understood the ramifications of his decision on Gwen’s life and livelihood…but in this scene, it’s as if he realizes it just now. And that frustrates me, because Arthur is smarter than that. How could he have assumed that Gwen would be safe when she left Camelot, unaccompanied, with no means of protection or shelter.
After Merlin leaves Gwen, she says something like “I have what I deserve,” and I find this so unfair. How can the system of justice that Gwen believes in (and what she has always believed Arthur stands for) in any way make her convinced that she deserves to be left in the woods, freezing, with no food, means of transport, money, or home. That just doesn’t line up with Gwen’s compassion towards others from earlier episodes, nor with her faith in Arthur as the good man that she knows he is. And personally watching this show as a woman of color, it’s really harmful to see messaging of any kind that devalues a woman’s (esp a WOC’s) worth and her right to home, safety, well-being — and I know that the show never acknowledges race, so I get that they aren’t going to do so now, but this line is not cool.
Anyway, excited for the season finale and the season roundup coming up! 🙂
9th May 2021 @ 12:53 am
I didn’t say this above, but I of course love Mithian! She’s fantastic.
9th May 2021 @ 10:01 am
I totally agree about the laziness of Gwen’s costume- it does just look cheap. I think the fact that she is so sexualised in this episode speaks to how it is (again) her beauty and sexuality that betrays her. I don’t actually hate this storyline though, because I do feel like it’s a real thing; it seemed every boy at my school was in love with my very conventionally attractive friend, but it meant they pestered her and it was difficult to make just friends with boys. It also kind of rings true with the original legends and women have been written for centuries. However, the episode doesn’t seem to make much of a statement with this, and this feels like a version of sexy slave Leia from Star Wars!
And it also makes me so sad when Gwen says she deserves it! When Arthur picks up the ring, I find myself wanting him to understand the pain he has put Gwen through, he deserves to face up with the hardship she has dealt with- and the possibility of her being dead.
10th May 2021 @ 3:14 pm
thank you for the kind words! Season 4 has been tough for us, and a part of that is absolutely the fact that for literally all of it we’re in the middle of a global pandemic and EVERYTHING about life is tough, but a much bigger part is the fact that Season 4 has a lot of issues, the biggest of which, as you say, is Agravaine, and there’s no getting away from that because he appears in Ep1 and doesn’t die until Ep13 (GRR!!!) so it’s really nice to hear that in spite of our ranting and growing frustration with this season, we’ve actually helped you re-find the joy in it <3
--Morgana sees the broken twig, and she flashes such an evil smirk before she catches herself and almost grimaces/growls as if she’s telling herself to stop gloating and get on with the chase (concentrate, Morgana!). It’s perfect, and Katie does this so well.--
definitely going to have to watch that scene again, as I love the broken twig and actually, how subtle it is, and how clever it is for Morgana to notice, but also the fact that the scene before we actually see Gwen *break* that very twig... it's so consice and there's so much attention to detail and I love it, but clearly it meant I missed the 'get the hell on with it' moment, and I will *definitely* appreciate that!!
M Xx
7th May 2021 @ 8:31 pm
I have a several comments about this episode and they’re all about Mithian because she’s the best lol. First, I read this article a while ago called “Thoughts on Princess Mithian” by ravenya03 on LiveJournal (you should really check it out if you have a chance) about a comparison between Mithian and Gwen that really fascinated me. Basically one part of their essay highlighted the fact that Mithian’s physical features and costuming are reminiscent of the typical picture of Guinevere from legends (tall, white, elegant, etc.). Not only that, but Mithian is royalty, just like Arthurian Legend Guinevere. I don’t know if this was intentional on the part of the writers, but Mithian is framed as Arthur’s ideal love interest because of her personality, but also because of her legendary significance. However, BBC Merlin is a show that subverts the original legends, therefore Mithian was doomed from the start; in this universe, the beautiful and regal princess does not get the prince, but the humble and simple servant whom the prince truly loves does. Again, not sure if that was intentional but I think it’s beautiful and adds a lot of depth and nuance that this show (no shade but kinda shade) often lacks.
Second, you said that you don’t understand why the show would try to make us ship Arthur and Mithian, but I think it was merely an attempt to raise the stakes executed poorly. For the most part, all the princess Arthur almost married were framed as unsuitable for Arthur from the viewers perspective and Gwen and Arthur’s relationship was fairly strong at these points; therefore, the audience never really felt a sense of suspense or worry that Gwen and Arthur would be kept from their happy ending eventually. This was a poor execution of stakes because the audience had no real feeling that there were stakes, even if the characters did. However, Mithian and Arthur have the opposite problem. At this point, Gwen and Arthur seem to have no chance of getting back together and Mithian is framed as a great match for Arthur. This should cause the audience to feel a sense of tension and panic because the two lovers who really should be together are about to be separated forever. Yet, I feel they go too far in making Mithian and Arthur get along because now I would rather have them together than Gwen and Arthur. I think this could have been tempered, however, if the show had done a better job of establishing Gwen and Arthur’s relationship. There are great moments between them, but I ultimately don’t feel as strongly about them as I should. On my first watch-through of the show, I actually hated Lancelot just because he was an obstacle in Gwen and Arthur getting together, but the only reason why I rooted for Gwen and Arthur so strongly is because the show told me to. After watching several more times, I have come to realize that Gwen and Lancelot actually have better chemistry. Furthermore, I think these stakes would have felt higher if the rift between Gwen and Arthur didn’t feel so dramatic and final. Perhaps if Gwen had chosen to leave instead of being banished by Arthur like you mentioned, the audience would have had more hope that they could come together after some time, making Mithian’s appearance more troublesome. Honestly, if it were up to me, Gwen and Lancelot would be together, and Arthur and Mithian would be together, but that didn’t happen because Merlin decided Gwen and Arthur are OTP and he will stop at nothing to protect his favorite ship.
6th May 2021 @ 8:08 pm
I don’t have such strong feelings about this episode or walk away with big revelations and ideas, its much more a list of small things that make me feel both love and indifference for this episode, ranging from ‘Yay, Mithian’ to ‘Just… why?’
So the first thing is that I am guessing this village is just ‘some other place’, whether inside or outside Camelot I’m not sure, coz otherwise wouldn’t Camelot gantries have reported seeing foreigners come over the borders, or Morgana secretly let them in with help. I’m a little confused again at the geography which I should just accept defeat to, but it brings up another question as ‘why didn’t Gwen immediately go stay with Hunith in Ealdor, or her friends Mary and John in Longstead?
I can’t help but really like Helios as a baddie, mainly coz I love Terence Maynard who plays him, as I grew up watching him as Van Helsing in Young Dracula 😊
The first scene makes me uncomfortable, especially rewatching as an adult, as now I fully understand the subtext of ‘pleasure to be had’. Of course in those days (and it would have been implied or shown in a higher rated show), invaders pillaged towns, took what they wanted, enslaved people and raped the women. I don’t mind so much that Helios took Gwen to be his ‘consort’ of sorts, coz it was made more audience friendly, as well as realistic. A man like him surely wouldn’t take one woman from this village just coz he’s not got enough servants. I remember when I first rewatched this scene with older eyes, with Gwen looking up at all these men, and shuddering at just how dark this show can subtly get.
Has it been a couple months since the banishment/shrine? Morgana now has an ally who she’s very friendly with and Arthur has apparently been in secret talks for months with Nemeth… That’s why we haven’t seen Arthur’s talks or Merlin bugging Arthur about Gwen, because we’ve gone through a time skip.
I get that Mithian’s father is an old man (Spoilers we see him at some later stage), and likely can’t leave his kingdom or else it would be vulnerable, and I’m also assuming that this is just a pre-meeting with two people who would be wed some time later, but Mithian doesn’t arrive with any servants or chaperones which is something I always notice when visitors come to Camelot. A princess like her should have her own entourage of ladies, it seems its not just Camelot that is under-staffed.
Poor mapmaker lad. I would have thought that if he was so so loyal to Arthur like he says, that he would try telling someone that Agravaine asked him to sneak siege maps out. Like you guys said, the more people who mention that Aggy is shifty should all come together and lead to an enquiry. Also, it might sound nasty, but maybe the show could have implied that Agravaine brutally beat up the boy to unconsciousness and deliberately leaving wounds and bruises, then carried his body to the edge of the bridge and shoved him off. This would make it look like he was reconstructing a sound situation where the boy had been killed by thugs. We see that Agravaine didn’t even make the kid fall, he took him to the ground below and arranged the body under the bridge to make it look like he fell… why not just make him fall for real? It’s not like there are ever any guards around to witness anything.
Chills down my spine when Morgana whispers “best not to be caught then”. Really sexy 😉 Also, probably the most english Katie has sounded for a long time haha.
More culture slipping into the show, I understand that at this time Briton was also having trouble with eastern invaders as well as Saxons. Aside from Helios’ clothes and the get-up he has Gwen wear, the soldiers do look like any other army we have seen. On another note, I wonder if the writers were implying Morgana’s flirtatious manner with Helios was mirroring Morgause’s relationship with Cenred. What else has Morgana promised Helios will get out of their alliance.
I’m a little confused at the timeline of the switching between Gwen and Arthur. Has Gwen dined with Helios a couple times by the time Morgana comes with the map? There is fanfiction (can’t remember the title) I’ve read where Gwen stays with Helios long enough to become acquainted with other concubines that Helios had acquired from the few countries he’s swept through.
At the entrance of Mithian, the lovely soft music that plays at the moment her face is unveiled is the same as the music in ‘Queen of hearts’ when Gwen comes out from behind the curtain in her pink dress to meet Merlin in anticipation of her picnic with Arthur. Musical cue especially for beautiful women, I like it lol.
Love everyone’s little reactions to Mithian, like were they really expecting her to be ugly haha.
This may be an unpopular opinion, and I get that ye storey is writteth for Arthur and Gwen to end up together, but I really do believe Arthur and Mithian would have been so good together. What you guys said before in the ‘Lancelot du Lac’ podcast ep about a potential ending where Arthur allows (shade)Lancelot and Gwen to leave together, if Arthur felt that Gwen was out there well and truly gone and there was no chance of reunion, he would have definitely moved on and been happy with Mithian. There’s attraction, chemistry, common interests and I bet Mithian would make the kingdom strong too and not be ‘a floating, silent queen’. Sorry, team Mithian!
So this is where the constant rejection ends up with Morgana. After being shunned away by a battle queen and a magic priest, and beaten up by Emrys, she has changed tactics to side with enemy invaders who will do what she says. She lets them into the land and free they’re to spread like wildfire whilst all she wants is Camelot. Very Vortigern of her..
When you guys mentioned ‘charismatic creepy villain’, my mind went to Alvarr, and now I’m wondering why we never see him come back and reunite with Morgana as an ally.
It’s interesting how Merlin feels like he should also be responsible for Arthur’s love life as part of his destiny. Where has he heard, at all, that Gwen is the only one Arthur could be with or would help keep the kingdom strong..? He never got any prophecy vision where Gwen is crowned queen so where’s this ‘fated’ thing come from? I totally agree, there should be certain things in this show that are not in question of being choice and free will and prophecy, not everything is planned to happen, unless you’re Morgana and you get a dream to scare you into action coz apparently Gwen IS prophecised to marry Arthur.
I’m getting really quite bored of the lack of costume variety in this season to be honest. Does Arthur have to wear chain mail for everything? Surely as king, he has the medieval equivalent of smart casual clothing for signing paperwork in the hall, to posh yet comfortable clothing like Uther had for entertaining guests at a feast. The long brown coat coming back for his picnic with Mithian used to suit him as a young prince, now it looks odd to see him wearing it again now for some reason.
Haha Morgana and her ye olde medieval photocopier magic XD
I just have written down here “Gorgeous, gorgeous Mithian. If you won’t have her, Arthur, I’ll give it a shot.” Damn that sounds like something Gwaine would say 😅
The festival of Ostara. Right! Finally a good pinpoint of where in the year we are. The spring equinox, Easter, and what’s more, a Pagan version of it. Like what the saxons have, an enemy to Briton. As we have seen from other episodes, Uther adopts many holidays into his kingdom that clash somewhat with what I assume he follows, which is Romanic Christianity. I admit I’m not well knowledgeable on this but it was the impression I got that this holiday was associated with mother goddess, and therefore more for magical people in this universe. I would have expected Merlin to be way more into celebrating in his own way and clashing with Arthur’s, and not getting time off. Or that Arthur is forcing him on a hunt to kill things when Ostara is meant to be about life and rebirth. Maybe that’s what Merlin should have been ranting about to a switched-off Gaius about, rather than the usual ‘s1 Merlin complaining about his job’ rant. I would like to see Merlin embrace more of what makes him different from Arthur’s world and Camelot, and take part in more ‘magical’ and ‘mother earth’ type things, when he has the time to breath of course. Point is, its nice to see Arthur also adopting different festivals into his kingdom, not that anything comes up about it, understandably. Don’t wanna bog kids down with religion.
Love Arthur and Mithian in the ‘breakfast’ scene.
Why didn’t Gwen give Helios a false name? What could have worked, and given us a reminder that Morgana once knew Gwen very well, is Gwen using her mother’s name (if it was ever established in the show), then when Morgana asked for the girl’s name, Helios would have said and Morgana would have known it was Gwen, after all she surely must have mentioned her mother at times whilst being Morgana’s servant. Results would be the same, but just a little added touch in my opinion.
Again with the costuming, Mithian’s is my favourite of all the princesses, but she does not have a good selection of different dresses for every occasion. Wearing her lovely intricate greenish golden dress always makes me an uncomfortable feeling when she’s out riding with Arthur or on the hunt. I don’t actually think her ‘picnic’ dress is simple enough. I see her as a ‘non traditional lady like princess’ which is why Arthur was shocked that she said she loved hunting and why she belches to make him less embarrassed at the picnic. I wanna see her wearing breeches and her own hunting gear as if she does it at home.
I also noticed that ‘magic eyes’ in later seasons on anyone appears more hot orange than soft gold like in earlier times. I feel like this is a change in computers effects going forward, and not a good change. Its looking too close to evil red magic eyes we see in ‘Gates of Avalon’. Its stands out more in the effects to make day look like night and both fire and magic eyes look more unnaturally redder. But I did see in this episode that Merlin’s magic eyes didn’t look right, even in daytime.
I love Mithian and Merlin’s scene together, but I don’t get Mithian’s line ‘Arthur values your opinion above others’, when all the time we’ve seen of her visit there were no examples of this. Added note, Merlin looks so manly, tall and handsome in this scene, slightly stood to the side, beautiful! Also I’ve always loved his line ‘What sport is it where one side is dogs, spears and crossbows and the other nothing.’
Morgana and Gwen are so weird on screen together now, it breaks more heart. Morgana refers to them once being friends, but I hear nothing from her in her voice. They have now become strangers, which I suppose is the point, yet I still get the vibe the show forgets sometimes just how much history Morgana and Gwen have and how much they should use to their advantage.
Morgana ripping the ring off Gwen’s neck and turning her into a deer to suffer more, Morgana is being spiteful and dramatic. Nothing more.
Extra points for reminding us of Merlin’s strong magical gift, when he senses something’s not right about the deer and he can see through the glamour, AND slows down time again. Been a long time since we saw that. I’m guessing he can just turn this ability on and off, but nice this was in there.
Merlin, stop ALL arrows, not just Arthur’s!
So can Merlin just heal people with magic now? I thought this was one of his weaknesses.
Love Merlin’s and Gwen’s reunion, but noticed that come morning, I agree, also noticed Merlin hadn’t brought anything else with him to give her. Didn’t set up a fire, didn’t give her a spare one of his coats, etc. Didn’t even hear him say ‘go to Ealdor’. Wish they had a bit more of a conversation, likely where she’d been and why she’s dressed like that, What’s happening in Camelot, etc.
Arthur sweetheart, you knew Morgana as a child, yet she turned into an enemy. Vaguely knowing an uncle from afar who then turns up to give you shoddy advice should be ringing way more alarm bells than it is. Bitten once, twice as gullible…. isn’t that the saying lol?
Merlin’s line about Gwen’s sacrifice is a little off to me. I know he can’t say him himself, but even Gwen doesn’t come as a close second to me. Yes, she’s brave and that…. i dunno. I don’t like this line. It’s nicely said, Colin makes Merlin seems so much older in this scene with his serious, wise, mysterious tone.
Arthur sat in his room with the soft lighting is so gorgeous, and the music is the same as in other episodes where characters are on their own in emotional or mental turmoil.
Poor Bradly’s face in the scene of Mithian’s exit is a little swollen, bless him. You can see it sometimes in ‘Herald of the new age’ sometimes too, something gave him a bad reaction.
Kicking over a full chamber pot humour, just Why. Ew, chamberlain Merlin not doing his job again!
Final note: ‘Merlin telling Arthur he’s the once and Future King, WHAT??’ This is prophecy stuff Merlin, even in jest, don’t say stuff like this, coz it doesn’t make sense to him and it doesn’t apply to the situation!
6th May 2021 @ 8:45 pm
-I would have expected Merlin to be way more into celebrating in his own way and clashing with Arthur’s, and not getting time off. Or that Arthur is forcing him on a hunt to kill things when Ostara is meant to be about life and rebirth.-
Oh wow, I didn’t actually catch the Ostara reference! I’m now reading about it, and it brings an even further layer into the whole story – the Spring equinox being about rebirth, but also, about love and mating! So it fits Arthur’s desire for a new beginning and, potentially, a new love, but, as you said, there is also something inherently wrong in having a hunt on a festival that is supposed to be about rebirth – and it almost leads to Gwen’s death. But Merlin (and fate?) intervene, and instead, the whole thing leads to a (symbolic) death of Mithian and Arthur’s chance at love, and to the rebirth of Arthur’s love for Gwen. Man, this episode is so intricate! 😀 I’ve been rambling about the symbolism in my original comment, and now my mind is just spinning lol 😀
I also think that Arthur and Mithian could have been happy with each other! As I wrote in my comment, I really love this episode for showing that there is no “one correct choice” when it comes to love. Because I don’t think Arthur made a mistake in choosing Gwen, but I also don’t think marrying Mithian would have been a mistake! Love is complicated 🙂
10th May 2021 @ 3:37 pm
— I’m a little confused again at the geography which I should just accept defeat to, but it brings up another question as ‘why didn’t Gwen immediately go stay with Hunith in Ealdor, or her friends Mary and John in Longstead?–
definitely give up on understanding albion’s geography!! and in regards to gwen’s “decision”, I think the only believable excuse we have is that the journey would have been unbelievably difficult for Gwen to make with the cart and no horse, and no money, and all that, and therefore she was staying in this village for a while to rest, and earning her stay by helping out… or something like that.
–Has it been a couple months since the banishment/shrine? Morgana now has an ally who she’s very friendly with and Arthur has apparently been in secret talks for months with Nemeth… That’s why we haven’t seen Arthur’s talks or Merlin bugging Arthur about Gwen, because we’ve gone through a time skip.–
I commented on this several times above, so apologies for any repetition, but I never took ‘being in secret talks for months’ to be in any way leading on from ‘since Gwen’s banishment’. In my mind arthur’s been in secret talks negotiating peace throughout season 4, and is only now revealing this because they’ve reached an agreement.
If they wanted Morgana’s new friend and unexpected army and siege tunnel plan to be the result of months and months of planning, between episode 10 and episode 11 they really needed to make more of a big deal of it, outside of arthur mentioning it *once* lol
–On another note, I wonder if the writers were implying Morgana’s flirtatious manner with Helios was mirroring Morgause’s relationship with Cenred. What else has Morgana promised Helios will get out of their alliance.–
who knows? as i said, that’s exactly what I got from their interaction, but ruth pointed out she wasn’t getting that at all so… 50/50 on that super unhelpful poll hahaha
–When you guys mentioned ‘charismatic creepy villain’, my mind went to Alvarr, and now I’m wondering why we never see him come back and reunite with Morgana as an ally.–
I swear I’ve had this conversation like…. four times with Ruth, and still I cannot ever remember the answer but… doesn’t he get killed at the end of the episode?
Like, I know he’s in the cell, and then Morgana lets him out (I think I know, anyway… that is what happens, right?), but for some reason I feel like we then have a report that he was apprehended and killed in the arrest or something like that. Am I completely making this up??? lol
ave her, Arthur, I’ll give it a shot.” Damn that sounds like something Gwaine would say 😅
–So can Merlin just heal people with magic now? I thought this was one of his weaknesses.–
he’s been pretty consistent at getting better at it, espeically during all of season 4, so I’m comfortable at this point that actually, he’s pretty good at healing. He wasn’t in earlier seasons, but hey, turns out it’s something he’s actually addressed and worked on. go him!
–Poor Bradly’s face in the scene of Mithian’s exit is a little swollen, bless him. You can see it sometimes in ‘Herald of the new age’ sometimes too, something gave him a bad reaction.–
lol Ruth and I litereally had a whole conversation about this that we had to cut out of the podcast. glad we weren’t making it up, but sad for what it means for Bradley.
There’s also the close up on his hands playing with the ring back in his room where you can see how swollen and bruised his knuckles are. I assume from sword fighting.
Suffering for your art, and all that lol
M Xx
10th May 2021 @ 10:39 pm
Thanks for your response ☺️
To my memory, Uther was ranting at the end of the episode back in s2 that Alvarr escaped and we see Morgana make proper sneaky face that only Merlin sees but Uther has good suspicion that Morgana let Alvarr out. I don’t remember ever hearing he was killed, only freed and never seen again 🤔
Which is why I’ve always wanted him of all enemies to come back, as he had charisma and manipulation techniques same as Morgana, I’d feel they’d rather get on and have a spicy couple baddy thing, constantly fighting for dominance haha.
11th May 2021 @ 2:01 pm
I am fully prepared to believe you, as I did feel like I was making it up in my head (often the case haha) and yes, if he’s still alive it would have been really good to have him come back, just for some consistency for the Morgana story overall. boo. 🙁
11th May 2021 @ 3:02 am
-Chills down my spine when Morgana whispers “best not to be caught then”. Really sexy 😉 Also, probably the most english Katie has sounded for a long time haha.-
I love this as well! Probably one of my favorite Morgana lines.
6th May 2021 @ 2:39 pm
There’s stuff in this episode that I don’t like, namely, the first rape-y scene, the vague oriental imagery and the stuff with Agravaine (though it doesn’t bother me as much as the Agravaine bits in other episodes). Otherwise, this episode has my heart (pun intended).
So first, let’s talk about how Mithian successfully subverts every princess trope we had in this show up to this point, and, what’s more, in reverse way. What does it mean? Well, first, she comes to Camelot veiled and we are invited to ask a question: maybe she’s veiled because she’s unattractive (as many unfortunate tropes taught us to expect with those kind of scenes)? Maybe the moment she moves it would turn out that she’s clumsy as Elena (season 3)? But then nope, she’s gorgeous and confident.
Then, we go to the feast scene, and Mithian and Arthur talk, and we are invited to suspect that yes, she might be gorgeous, but maybe she’s really mean? Maybe she’s a spoiled brat like Vivian (season 2)? Nope, she’s nice, intelligent and considerate. I think the main reason Merlin starts making those stupid ruses at this point in the episode is to provoke some kind of mean reaction from Mithian, because I’m sure, if Arthur spilled soup on himself or belched in Vivian’s presence, she would have made hell out of it. But Mithian doesn’t.
Then, Mithian approaches Merlin. And we are, yet again, invited to ask the question: so, if she’s pretty and intelligent, then maybe she’s a schemer like Sophia (season 1)? But no, her attempt to win Merlin over doesn’t come from a place of emotional manipulation; she genuinely wants to win Merlin’s trust.
I think that’s all very neat. Because we know Arthur is supposed to end up with Gwen, we, as the audience used to countless tropes that are constantly overused in order to get the TV “true love” couples together, expect to see a princess who would be awful and therefore make Arthur realize how great Gwen is by comparison. But we’re not doing that. And I freaking love it. I also actually like the fact that we try to ship Arthur and Mithian in this episode, that we go a step further than we did with Elena (who was a great friend material, but definitely “just a friend”). Because that, in the end, makes us realize that sometimes, those decisions about whom we love and whom we don’t love, are not entirely logical, or, better, that there is no “one right decision” when it comes to whom we chose for our partners. Because I firmly believe that, if at this point Arthur decided to marry Mithian, and Gwen would have eventually found her happiness elsewhere, none of them would have been miserable.
And that leads me to my second important point this week. I don’t agree that the fairy tale elements don’t land in this episode. Because I think this is a fairy tale about fate, or about people who love each other coming together no matter what. No matter what Merlin does to intercept Arthur and Mithian’s relationship, he ends up cementing it further; but it is Gwen’s ring that Arthur finds that brings him back to thinking about Gwen – and, ironically, the ring is left there by Morgana who tried to do everything to spoil Gwen and Arthur’s relationship. So we have the fate element woven in neatly (and yes, I also don’t like that Merlin uses the word “destiny” to describe it, I think “fate” would have been better, or, just as you said, make him mention love).
Then, we have the symbolism of it all. First, we contrast Mithian and Gwen visually very much (and some of it, while I’m sure not intended, gets probably a bit problematic – we make Gwen wear really dark clothing, which she usually doesn’t, while Mithian wears creamy white, and we also contrast their clothing in a cultural context). Then, we contrast their circumstances, with Gwen being impoverished and/or constantly in danger, and Mithian enjoying herself in Camelot. And then, we make the hunt scene, in which symbolically, Arthur tries to kill Gwen without knowing it (a very tragic mythic element) and Mithian actually succeeding in wounding her. Because Mithian’s only “faults” are contextual and no actual faults: that she unknowingly enjoys herself while Gwen suffers, and that she loves hunting (which Merlin hates and we made a point of him believing this is a bad pastime in the past). All those circumstantial things lead to Arthur finally realizing that he loves Gwen and wants Gwen – and not through direct cause and effect, but through symbolism and semi-tragic circumstance (tragic from Mithian’s perspective, because she loses through no fault of hers). I know that some of the enchantment stuff doesn’t make sense logically. But the thing is… I’ve been reading a lot of fairy tales lately, and FAIRY TALES MAKE NO SENSE. 90% of their plot could be avoided if characters did the logical thing instead of the outlandish one. But the nature of a fairy tale is not to be a logical story, but to serve a symbolic purpose, teach a lesson, or show the depths of human heart and/or tragedy of existence. At least, that’s what the ye olde-y time-y fairy tales do, not the Disney ones. And for the most part, the lesson in a fairy tale isn’t the lesson for a character, but for the audience. So I don’t mind that Arthur doesn’t learn that Gwen was the doe. Because we do, and because in the end, Gwen finds her way to Arthur’s heart yet again. In this context, the title “The Hunter’s Heart” is very poetic, because on one hand, it reminds us of Snow White and the hunter who took pity on her – but it’s subverted, as it’s Mithian who looks like Snow White, not Gwen, and she’s the one shooting – the perfect Snow White-type princess unknowingly trying to kill the actual, not fairy tale-y true love. And then, of course, there is Arthur as the hunter whose heart opens once more to the one he was supposed to at least banish, if not symbolically kill in his heart. Honestly, this whole theme has so many layers and I think it’s brilliant!
Ugh, now that my rambling is done, some musical notes:
I don’t understand the soundtrack in this episode. First of all, we have Freya’s Theme playing when Mithian tries to win Merlin over in the corridor – a theme which, up to this point, played when Merlin was meeting good magic users. I don’t know what it’s doing there, but it sure gives me shippy vibes *proceeds to read rare Merthian fanfic*
Every time Arthur thinks about Gwen, we play The Bond of Sacrifice. Thematically, it doesn’t make sense. Emotionally, it works. But it leaves a message of Arthur having sacrificed Gwen and, what’s interesting, in the one scene where Gwen talks about Arthur to Merlin, we play their love theme, that is, what I would have expected to play also in the Arthur scenes. It suggests, of course, that Gwen still loves Arthur, but I kinda regret that they don’t emphasize the amount of sacrifice that Gwen also went through this episode.
Other stupid thoughts:
– Merlin sure is mean to Arthur with Mithian, but I can’t help but laugh every time he rolls his eyes like a petulant child!
– when Gaius says to Merlin “smile and clap” when Arthur announces his plan to marry Mithian – for me, this is one of the most important Gaius character bits. The old man has been conditioned by years of Uther’s reign of terror, he schooled himself never to question the King’s decisions, and never to be seen questioning them. Those years of conditioning can’t be undone quickly, so even if he knows that Arthur is different from Uther, he still can’t help himself. What surprises me though, is that Merlin rolls with it, instead of giving Gaius a “WTF man” kind of look.
– I wish Merlin at least told Gwen in the end “go to Ealdor, my mum will take you in”, especially that SPOILER she ends up in Ealdor anyway.
All in all, I think this episode is the best in season 4, if only for the Mithian of it all, and for the intricate and multi-layered symbolism. And I stand by my choice!
6th May 2021 @ 8:30 pm
I had just rewatched this episode today fresh, and the thing is Merlin DOES actually say ‘It is Arthur’s FATE to marry Gwen.’ I was surprised, I remember him saying destiny, but he uses the word fate instead! Shocker!
I like and agree with what you did with the comparison to each princess and love interest we’d seen so far and trying to cross Mithian off the list with having one these off-putting traits like not as attractive for a princess, rude, easily riled etc, and then turning out to be a total sweetheart. In my opinion, she’s so much more of a better option for Arthur than Gwen now and that’s because the writers made her a Mary sue this season.
Permission to read Merthian fanfics granted, I’ll join you. I have an un-guilty pleasure for shipping those two sometimes haha.
6th May 2021 @ 8:47 pm
Huh, I also thought he said destiny! Merlin must have enchanted us all 😀
8th May 2021 @ 1:29 am
I love everything you said! I have always loved Mithian and I do like the episode, but it isn’t one I absolutely love (the next one is one of my favs). I, unfortunately, haven’t written a comment because I have been scratching my head trying to come up with something worth contributing…. I’m going to rewatch the episode with your comments in mind and maybe I’ll think of something!
Also, what fairy tales are you reading!?
8th May 2021 @ 1:54 am
I’ve been listening to The Myths and Legends Podcast – it started because of Merlin, as I wanted to get to know the Arthurian legends better, but had no concentration left to read the originals. But there are many more fairy tales and legends there, from all over the world, so I’ve refreshed my memory of the original Grimm classics and Greek myths, but also the Russian fairy tales of Baba Yaga, Ivan and Vasylisa… and got to know some Indigenous American folklore which is truly great! Thoroughly recommend 🙂
9th May 2021 @ 12:45 am
Oh! This sounds amazing and right up my alley! I will check it out! Thanks for the recommendation.