Episode V.III – The Death Song of Uther Pendragon
Join us as we discuss The Death Song of Uther Pendragon
Links mentioned in the episode:
F&F YouTube Channel – Welsh Hiatus
Deleted Scene: Sleeping on the left
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12th September 2021 @ 11:22 pm
This is going to have to be a short one, as I’m running pretty late this week! This was a really really great episode for Merlin and Arthur, and I think there are some amazing performances. It’s one I like even better thinking about it more critically, and I am SO glad that something in season 5 has held up and it’s not all downhill!
I absolutely love that we get a final confrontation between Uther and Merlin. I think their relationship throughout the show, even after Uther’s death, is fascinating and they’ve always played it with such nuance. Uther is, should we be taking Merlin as the protagonist (which is ambiguous in the earlier seasons) his direct antagonist – he actively persecuted his people, and directly opposes the future Merlin desires and works for. But, it comes back to the fact he is the King, but more importantly Arthur’s father. It’s almost Romeo and Juliet: “my only love sprung from my only hate” – this man is the reason the destiny in necessary at all, he created everything Merlin fights against and yet Merlin saves his life again and again, and saves Arthur’s love for him too. There’s always been a strange understanding between them, and that deepened in The Sins of the Father. Here it reaches its maximum: Uther finally sees him for who he is, though still will never truly know him, for his hatred blinds him.
It’s interesting that Arthur doesn’t even think about his mother? Just Uther? I wonder if, even though he “overcomes” his Father’s scepticism, this is a sort of manifestation of Arthur’s reluctance to let go of his father, just as Morgana had (all down to Katie!) that beautiful moment of awareness that her father had died, even though he’d caused her so much pain and suffering. Because the elephant in the room is that it does end before Merlin’s magic can be revealed, and Arthur is still upholding the one thing Uther stood for above all else and the centre of his tyranny: the persecution of magic users.
I’m glad you picked up on Colin’s performance after the horn has been blown and Uther has gone, because oh my goodness it is a thing of beauty. I also love it when he says “Even when you were King, there was magic at the heart of Camelot”. There so much raw emotion in that – the grim satisfaction and irony of Uther’s ignorance, but the purity and tenderness of the fact that it was not malicious as Uther thinks, but always in Camelot’s, and therefore Uther’s, best interests.
And of course so much credit to Bradley for that beautiful performance when he blows the horn for the last time. It’s so gently done.
Thank you as ever for a great episode!
13th September 2021 @ 7:05 pm
I love love love your take on Merlin (both the man and the show) viewing Uther as the main antagonist, not Morgana. That Merlin has put his hate aside for a man who started all this, because it’s better for the person he loves, despite it turning out bad for others. This whole destiny thing started because Uther was destined to be the man to spark Merlin’s and Arthur’s. He is to be both praised and punished for being the start of the ball rolling, and its great that Merlin finally got this moment and confrontation with the man that is sort of the reason he was needed to be born.
15th September 2021 @ 9:42 pm
Oh thank you! Do you know, I completely forgot about Morgana haha!
– That Merlin has put his hate aside for a man who started all this, because it’s better for the person he loves, despite it turning out bad for others. This whole destiny thing started because Uther was destined to be the man to spark Merlin’s and Arthur’s. –
Oh you have said this so beautifully. It’s so ironic and sad and horrible and tragic…but I agree, the confrontation is incredibly satisfying and I am SO glad we got it.
12th September 2021 @ 7:06 pm
Hi everybody,
I just heard the podcast on sunday evening and sadly I have no time at all to read all the other comments or to write a proper one myself, so I’m sorry if all of you pointed the one thing out already that I want to say.
The moment where Uther says “I love you” to Arthur always makes me so angry, because I genuinely believe he only says it to make Arthur turn around. And I think, Arthur must have this thought in hindsight, too, because it is literally the only not mean thing he says or does once he gets started and as a poltergeist later. Poor Arthur.
13th September 2021 @ 1:56 am
I honestly had never thought of Uther knowing how to get out into the living and tricking Arthur into looking back! 👏🏻👏🏻
13th September 2021 @ 7:13 pm
I thought so too! This is not the Uther that was mortal and died. this is a manifestation of hate and fear and manipulation come back as Uther’s image, and of course he would use it to trick Arthur into turning around to free him by saying something like that!
12th September 2021 @ 6:02 am
Totally agree with what you said about the Arthur-Uther scenes. I love the moment where Arthur admits feeling alone. Though I feel his loneliness is never fully explored. Last time this sentiment of being the lonely king was mentioned it was glossed over and led the way into the comedic bath scene.
Ah the ‘wedding ring’, which the producers also jokingly mention in the last commentary! Though I thought this was the ‘kingship ring’ Arthur wore since season 4 -the one he gives Agravaine to show he’s in charge? Talking of deleted scenes, I saw one where Arthur gives Gwen flowers in this episode. It wasn’t important enough to keep, I suppose. But can I just say, so far the interactions between Arthur and Gwen feel very formal. As if they didn’t have history and are instead two people arranged married for the kingdom who happen to be compatible. I was expecting more casual moments of affection/banter between them that “shows” Arthur loves Gwen rather than him “telling” this to Uther. I also don’t like that Arthur chooses not to share his inner conflict with Gwen. I get that the focus is on Merlin as his confidant, but I wish the ‘don’t tell Gwen’ wasn’t in script.
Arthur’s sarcastic ‘I love poetry’ is the best. I love this background we’ve built of Arthur as someone who doesn’t do romance, yet we’ve seen him being sensitive and affectionate.
12th September 2021 @ 11:29 am
I know right! I’m so glad you also said Arthur and Gwen seem like an arranged couple, I was worried it was an unpopular opinion lol.
I feel the deleted scene with Arthur and Gwen was good to be cut but at the same time, I liked it coz it gave their relationship sudden spice. As I say in my comment, it hints at the couple going through some rough times atm and without context and no explanation later, this scene would have stood out randomly.
12th September 2021 @ 12:27 am
So, I’m one of the people that never saw the last scene as a ‘fisting’ joke. I still kind of don’t? I mean, I thought Arthur’s just threatening Merlin with a proper punch to show him how ‘weak’ his slap was?
But moving on: this episode is a really weird one for me. After first watching it and ranking it in my system, the episode got really, really low scores. But I cannot for the life of me now explain why. Because somehow it has weaselled its way to one of my favourite episodes in season 5.
I love that this episode is so Arthur and Merlin-centric. Like you’ve said in Looking forward to Destiny and Chicken before season 1: their dynamic, relationship and Bradly and Colin’s fabulous acting are basically 99% of the appeal of this show, what we love about it and why we invest in it despite it being, in many other aspects, mediocre to abysmal. And that’s why this episode is really lovely and solid. I wonder if, at the end of D&C, we should have a look at the List of Destiny and see whether the top episodes are those that have lots of Merlin and Arthur one-on-one scene or where the plot and emotional emphasis centres around their relationship (I mean, they all kind of do, but more so than others that are lower on the list).
Perhaps I am late to the game but I feel that Merlin at this point really doesn’t want to tell Arthur about his magic. Because this is the best chance he has ever had: Obviously he couldn’t (or would have been disinclined to) while Uther was alive. And admitting magical powers after or before his intervention to save Uther would have had quite serious consequences also – both if Uther had lived or died. But here is the first time since Arthur became king (and made the Herald of the New Age promise) that Arthur has willingly and knowingly used magic – but Merlin’s magic wasn’t actually involved. Here, he could have taken the step to confess to Arthur without being confronted immediately with any responsibilities. I think Merlin has got to the comfortable, lovely point (maybe during those three years of peace) where you don’t really want to begin a romance with your friend, even though there is a spark between you. But what you’ve got is so valuable to you that you don’t want to change it. Tragically, of course, that will also mean that Merlin does not put effort or risk into advancing the cause of magic – and I have a feeling this might not end well. (Ominous foreshadowing music.)
It might have been a woman screaming but it certainly wasn’t THIS old woman screaming! She is so subdued and silent (and dying – of what?) and so are all the others! Conclusion: Merlin and Arthur never actually found the woman that was actually screaming and; RIP screaming woman.
Also, where did the old woman get that horn? Was she carrying that while the was tied to the stake?! And no one thought to take away the magical object when they were about to burn the witch? How did the old woman even get her hands on this if it was used in High Priestess rituals? Was she a High Priestess and (dare I go there?) who or what are High Priestesses, how can you become one, questions, questions, questions!
In some ways, I am really glad that Arthur was given a final closure episode to deal with his father’s death. Discussing The Wicked Day, I remember that we remarked that Arthur’s shock was a little bit too intense – surely his father dying and him becoming king wasn’t so very unthinkable and sudden for Arthur since Uther was already withering away after Morgana’s betrayal was revealed in the season 3 finale. But then we also talked about grief not really making sense and, as we have seen in season 4, probably the sudden death and lack of closure from Arthur’s point of view (plus Agravaine’s meddling presence) prevented him from growing into his kingship as quickly as we were expecting (since he has trained and prepared for it all his life). So, it’s nice to have this closure episode but it feels a bit out of synch. Surely, it would have been nicer to have this episode before ‘His Father’s Son’ – ‘The Death Song’ as Arthur’s inner conversion, where he defines/formulates his kingly mantra for himself, followed by ‘His Father’s Son’ where we then see Arthur showcasing this inner resolve to the world. Instead of this episode being season 5 episode 3, I almost think you could swap it nicely with ‘A Herald of the New Age’. If that one came right after Arthur’s Bane, it might also nicely link with and resolve the druid conundrum of Sefa and Mordred, even provide posthumous absolution for Ruadan. (And then Sefa could come back and she and Merlin could really get to know each other and then…and then I remember that Mithian comes next episode and I’m really torn. No, Mithian, always Mithian. But Sir Leon might like to recite some poetry to Sefa from time to time? Now that he has seen how much Arthur likes it, he feels he is finally permitted to admit to his secret hobby. 😊
The upturned bowl scene is the best. It’s so funny! (Minus the weird spoon joke.)
Merlin says, ‘I value my life and I don’t want to die horribly.’ The bittersweet truth is, of course, that what is he really saying is that ‘I value your life and don’t want you to die horribly – and I’m ready to die horribly if that’s what it takes.’ Not worthless but worth less than yours. It seems Merlin and Uther agree on a lot of things now. Merlin has been learning his lessons from Uther while Arthur is learning to reject more and more lessons his father taught him. Again, like in 5.1 & 2, we get the sense that at some point after Arthur become king, Arthur and Merlin completely swapped roles, outlook and purpose and are now going in opposite directions along the path the other was on when they first met. It seems simultaneously beautiful and tragic.
You know how we laughed about the many, many times that Arthur, while Uther was alive had to prove his worth as a king to Uther and, at the end of an episode, was declared ‘finally ready to be king’? The producers and writers clearly liked that trope so much that even death couldn’t prevent them from using it just once more.
I really love the implications in this episode that Merlin is now Arthur’s family. Both times when Arthur spoke to his dead parents, he did not feel he had enough time to say what he wanted to say and both times the experience was traumatic. In life, Uther clearly didn’t give much chance to Arthur to tell him what he needed to say as Arthur says so to Uther’s ghost. Merlin, on the other hand, is not only shown to be always there, ready to listen but directly offers Arthur the chance to ‘talk about it’. I love the emphasis on communication as the key to a balanced and healthy and complete relationship. And that’s what Merlin offers Arthur in a way that no one before has. (I do wonder, though, how Gwen features in this discussion. She is certainly not shown to be as available as Merlin to listen and discuss.)
Why DOES it take Percival twice as long to change out of his armour? That’s what I want to know. It doesn’t even have sleeves. But maybe Percival is just delaying in the hopes that he may stay behind, be attacked by a Poltergeist and finally get a good scene and some lines. I’d be slow getting out of my armour for that too.
Okay, I’ve had this question many times but, again, where is Merlin going to sleep if Gwen is lying unconscious in his bed? Can’t they just use a sickbed (like they had for Merlin in the Poisoned Chalice) in the main room for patients or Lancelot or Gwaine or other knights that need a place to stay?
12th September 2021 @ 5:49 pm
“It seems Merlin and Uther agree on a lot of things now. Merlin has been learning his lessons from Uther while Arthur is learning to reject more and more lessons his father taught him.”
Ha, that is such a clever (and tragic) thought!
13th September 2021 @ 6:54 pm
“It might have been a woman screaming but it certainly wasn’t THIS old woman screaming!”
Haha! I thought the same as I saw the old woman on the pyre and reasoned, it must be someone who loves her and is at the scene, like a daughter or granddaughter.
13th September 2021 @ 7:10 pm
-Perhaps I am late to the game but I feel that Merlin at this point really doesn’t want to tell Arthur about his magic.-
I agree that he is probably in that comfortable stage and he’s been lying for so long that he probably doesn’t really want to acknowledge it and comfort it. I think he is still scared. I don’t think he is scared for his life but he is scared of what effect Arthur knowing that Merlin has played him a fool for years will have on their friendship/bromance. I do t think it’s about magic anymore or helping the magic community. It’s about Merlin potentially losing the most important person/friend in his life.
14th September 2021 @ 11:22 am
Every time I think about a magic reveal at this point it does remind me of what Ruth said at some point last seasons. Having got to this point, you’re no longer asking ‘Why isn’t Merlin telling Arthur about his magic??’ but instead you genuinly have to ask ‘Why should he tell him at this point? Why today? What makes if different from yesterday? Last week? Last year?’. And yes, of course, as you say, the fear that he’s let this go on much too far, because how can he excuse not having told Arthur at this point? He’s had hundreds of opportunities, and yes, he hasn’t. I know I certainly couldn’t talk my way out of it, on a random Tuesday…
Oh, merlin… 🙁
14th September 2021 @ 11:38 am
–So, I’m one of the people that never saw the last scene as a ‘fisting’ joke. I still kind of don’t? I mean, I thought Arthur’s just threatening Merlin with a proper punch to show him how ‘weak’ his slap was?–
oh, absolutely! not an ‘in show’ fisting joke. Arthur’s totally just threatening to punch Merlin in the face (not loving that, by the way).
— I wonder if, at the end of D&C, we should have a look at the List of Destiny and see whether the top episodes are those that have lots of Merlin and Arthur one-on-one scene or where the plot and emotional emphasis centres around their relationship.–
We’ll definitely be having an in depth look the the List of Destiny in the ‘entire show round up’ (must think of a catchier name for that! lol) and possibly regret all of the choices we made throughout D&C hahaha
–Also, where did the old woman get that horn? Was she carrying that while the was tied to the stake?! And no one thought to take away the magical object when they were about to burn the witch? How did the old woman even get her hands on this if it was used in High Priestess rituals? Was she a High Priestess and (dare I go there?) who or what are High Priestesses, how can you become one, questions, questions, questions!–
hahaha you should know better than to go there by now! but yes… she clearly had the horn hidden up her skirt. No one checked because that would have been rude. And she got her hands on it because… she was a High Priestess? Turns out when we were told they were dying out (had all died out already?? gosh, I can’t even remember, it was such nonsense in the first place). And she died of… stress and old age. yep yep…
(alternatively: I DON’T KNOW BECAUSE NON OF IT MAKES ANY SENSE!!!! lol)
— Merlin says, ‘I value my life and I don’t want to die horribly.’ The bittersweet truth is, of course, that what is he really saying is that ‘I value your life and don’t want you to die horribly – and I’m ready to die horribly if that’s what it takes.’ Not worthless but worth less than yours. —
ARGH. that’s horribly painful! I’m gonna put this entire paragraph into my S5 round up document, because I don’t think I can talk about it without future knowledge right now, but just… thanks for the pain!!
–Okay, I’ve had this question many times but, again, where is Merlin going to sleep if Gwen is lying unconscious in his bed? —
obviously Merlin will sleep on the floor, with his head on… a book, was it? I’m pretty sure it was a book he used as a pillow in… love in the time of dragons?
so, so, so dumb… lol especially because in Another’s Sorrow we bring Mithian straight to a spare bedroom in the castle and Gaius goes to see to her there, rather than in his chamber where all the drugs live… ::SHRUG::
M xx
14th September 2021 @ 10:09 pm
We’ll definitely be having an in depth look the the List of Destiny in the ‘entire show round up’ (must think of a catchier name for that! lol) and possibly regret all of the choices we made throughout D&C hahaha –
You know what, I don’t think you’ll have to regret a lot. I think your list is pretty solid if you go by episode quality. But then, it would be an entirely different list of you thought only of rewatchability (I think that’s not a word.)
I’m gonna put this entire paragraph into my S5 round up document, because I don’t think I can talk about it without future knowledge right now, but just… thanks for the pain!! –
You’re welcome? Maybe? Sorry! 😬
11th September 2021 @ 10:42 pm
I waited to comment on this, trying to formulate my thoughts on the “I was born with it” line – but I’ve not managed it, so here’s hoping this makes sense. I found the line really frustrating when directed at Agravaine – like, Agravaine’s shock at Merlin’s magic was (to me) about Merlin being more powerful than he looked and being subversive – like, he’s surprised that Merlin of all people has this powerful weapon that he’s kept hidden for so long, and “I was born with it” as a response didn’t quite match that to me. Don’t get me wrong, I can rationalise it – Merlin asserts who he is (a being of magic, born like this) as opposed to Agravaine’s surface-level understanding of his magic as something he “has.” But I still find it a difficult line. When directed at Uther, it makes more sense: Uther’s hatred of magic is a direct attack on who Merlin is as a person, and so Merlin is saying two things – 1, an affirmation of his sense of himself as magical being (“this is who I am”) but also 2, a sadder statement – “it’s not my fault, I was born like this.” It reminds me of season 1, when Merlin asked Gaius if he was a monster. In isolation I quite like this exchange, but the callback to the Agravaine scene ruined it for me – not just in the sense that it reminded me of a character I found irritating but because like you’ve said when a line is repeated or echoed there should be a dialogue between the two instances, and here I just have no idea what that dialogue is saying. It lacked weight when said to Uther because it had already been said to Agravaine. I don’t know.
(that said, overall I enjoyed the episode and your discussion of it!)
11th September 2021 @ 4:15 am
Hello y’all!
I really love this episode! I am currently working on my own List of Destiny (it is not even close to complete), but this one is def close to the top of my list. I love it because it is mostly just Arthur and Merlin adventuring. We get SO MANY bromance moments, my heart is just overflowing with joy!
FINALLY we get Arthur taking action to help someone being persecuted for using magic. I like that he asks if she had a fair trial, but wish that we had some reference to “giving fair trails” like someone mentioned in another comment. I’ll forever wonder about the “three years of prosperity and peace.” I do like how the man challenges Arthur and says his father wouldn’t give the woman a fair trial even though it has been many years since Uther rule. It seems this village is pretty far out and being someone that grew up in a rural area, I understand how small towns can be behind the times (even in modern day).
One thing that has always puzzled me is why is this woman suddenly on her deathbed? It’s just kind of weird the villagers decide to burn her when she is dying. Did the villagers beat her or something? Also, why do you need to show the horn “kindness and compassion?” What difference does that make?
Gaius says the horn was used at Beltane by the high priestesses. So, is it Beltane? I don’t remember Uther dying around Beltane…. wasn’t Beltane when the doracha came around??? I am just confused by Gaius mentioning Beltane. It makes it seem that is the only time you can use the horn to visit the spirit world. (I could be completely wrong here and delirious after a long work week. Please correct me if I am.)
Someone mentioned above that Arthur doesn’t know that Merlin’s dad is dead, but there was a deleted scene from Aithusa that I thought he mentioned it to him. Something about last seeing him in that cave?? Maybe they forgot they cut that?
I really wish they would have made this full circle and tied everything up neater. I wish we would have witnessed Arthur loosening the strings on magical people and people of the Old Religion and Uther being unhappy about THAT. After all, the MAIN focus of Uther and the show is MAGIC. Why is Uther angry about some commoners being knighted when his son KNIGHTED A DRUID? I completely agree with whoever said something like this above. We could have had more Mordred in this one. I am glad that Percival had a part, but having Mordred attacked would have been better….. but had we done that, would he have used magic? Would Arthur had noticed?
Like Ruth said, Merlin’s body language by the fire is spot on. “I am open and ready to listen.” I think it is really powerful that Arthur says “his kingdom” when talking about Uther. It speaks to the part of me that stills feels like a child playing at being an adult. I am 32 years old, married and have a career as a nurse, but I still feel I am playing dress up. I LOVE his expression when Merlin points out his slip. It just shows no matter how old and what your responsibilities are, you always feel like a child when your parent disapproves.
A pet peeve that keeps growing every time I see the round table: Why isn’t Merlin invited to be a part of it?! I know it was mentioned in the podcast that Merlin and Arthur are “two sides of the same coin” so since Arthur is sitting at the table then Merlin basically is, but I just don’t feel this way. He was sitting at the round table in the original round table scene so why not now?! I am so frustrated with how emotionally constipated Arthur is when it comes to showing Merlin and everyone around that he really cares for Merlin and respects his opinion. Merlin is Arthur’s most important council and HE KNOWS IT! Just admit it, Arthur, and show him SOME sort of respect publicly. How is it that Gwen was able to move up in station when she became Arthur’s gf and take care of Uther and run the castle and Merlin is still just Arthur’s servant? He is his best friend! (sigh) I really want to dive directly into my anger and frustration with their last scene ever together, but….. I will just have to wait. Oh! And at some point Arthur says Gwen is the one he trusts most in the world? FALSE! He trusts Merlin most! Another example of how he is so emotionally constipated when it comes to Merlin….
It takes YEARS to train to “not look back?” OK… I do love how Arthur scrapes his plate all guiltily and is like….”maybe”…when Merlin asks if he looked back. I know it isn’t suppose to be a funny scene, but I just giggle when Arthur tells Merlin “Leave me,” and Merlin stares him down for a second and then leaves, but continues to stare him down the entire time like “You know I’m right,” all the way until he closes the door. 🤣
I never thought Uther would kill Arthur, but it never occurred to me that he could possess Arthur like the druid boy did to Elyan. I absolutely LOVE this idea! We could have done an episode of THAT instead of WAY too many episodes of Evil Gwen.
The way Merlin COMMANDS Uther to get away from Arthur. The use of just Uther’s name without a ‘king’ or ‘sire’ or ‘lord’ always strikes me as so POWERFUL! Wow, Colin! 👏👏👏 He is absolutely AMAZING in this scene! I love the scene where he revealed his magic to Agravaine, but I love this scene MORE. He is seething! I really feel all the frustration, hurt, rage, triumph, pride all battling inside Merlin. This is a moment that I am sure he never thought he would get and he wants to seize his chance at vengeance. I think seeing that Uther hurt Arthur was the last straw for Merlin. Do you think Merlin could have destroyed Uther on his own if Arthur had never showed up to save him? Or do you really have to use the horn? My only issue with the whole Merlin chasing Uther thing is…. why would Merlin go INTO the armory when he knows Uther used weapons to attack Percival?!?
Bradley does a FANTASTIC job with the tears in his eyes when he blows the horn! Everyone is saying Merlin and Arthur aren’t looking at each other after Uther disappears, but this whole time I thought they were! (And I thought it was really intense eye contact and kind of uncomfortable.) I like it better if they aren’t looking at each other so thanks for that!
Just for fun comments:
Uh….so Arthur and Merlin went “hunting” without spears or crossbows or anyone else? Yeah…..OK….
The man that wants to set the woman on fire has A LOT of nerve to go directly against the king and basically says “Naw, I’m gonna burn her anyways.”
Look! Arthur has learned to gather firewood!
Damn! I forgot how handsome Serious Bradley is…. please… ponder all season!
I LOVE the horn and bowl scene, BUT since when does Merlin knock? Also, I love how Arthur “hides” the horn under the bowl, yet apples are just everywhere. Their whole interaction is just so good and this is a prime example of the bromance I love!
Colin’s little head tilt!
I thought the knights were changing out of their armor, yet they all walk out in chainmail? Also! LOVE Elyan’s little walk by Percival. Haha
Thank goodness we have a buff Merlin now, so he can rescue Gwen!
Love where Gaius scares Merlin and Arthur after they discover the mouse. Totally worth Gaius being alive just for that one scene! 🙂
The potion scene is one of my favorites. ❤ Love that Merlin holds in his disgust until Arthur downs it. Haha.
I love that Merlin is so spooked when they first start ghost hunting that he thinks their shadows are Uther LOL Like he has never seen a ghost before….
LOVE Bradley in that red tunic.
I don’t usually like hitting, but I do LOVE the slap of the head with gloves and how Bradley’s hair goes up and stays up. Merlin immediately regrets his decision, which is just so great…. but not a fan of the fisting joke. Oh! And I wasn’t a fan of the spoon hitting either.
Just love getting to nerd out on this website on my Friday nights! Thanks for putting this podcast on and for all your hard work!
11th September 2021 @ 5:42 pm
“wasn’t Beltane when the doracha came around??? I am just confused by Gaius mentioning Beltane.” –
I believe Beltane is the beginning of summer, this is when Morgana attacked at the s4 finale because they were having a feast. The Dorocha were released the previous year at Samhain, which is ye olde halloween, the perfect time to set free some ghosties. So yeah, Gaius saying the sorceresses of old used the horn at Beltane is a little weird. What’s important about the summertime, daylight saving time for the spirit world?
“It takes YEARS to train to “not look back?””-
Apparently so haha. I’m not sure what Gaius was getting by saying sorceresses trained for years but maybe something to do with the trust that none of them would do anything other than have a quick chat with spirits and pop back again. Or maybe it took skill and will power to know who specifically to summon out of all possible dead people. Now I just can imagine a scenario where Arthur sees a shape coming towards him, speaks out “Father?” and instead its so random guy named Bob, and Arthur be like “ooh sorry rando Bob, meant to call forth my father. And Bob be like “Its okay mate, happens all the time, No one gets it right first time.” XD
“why would Merlin go INTO the armory when he knows Uther used weapons to attack Percival?!?”-
I agree! You’d think as soon as Merlin stepped in the room he would think ‘Oh snap, he WANTED me to follow him here, the sly devil!’ We have already had a scene in the armoury this episode, it would have been neat for Uther to try and kill Merlin is a new location, perhaps significant to Merlin, where he knows there aren’t any obvious weapons around…
I’ve just realised how Uther tries to kill people in a certain way and place. He locks Gwen in the kitchen (her RIGHTFUL place) and nearly burns her in a parallel to nearly burning her at the stake in s1 and s3. He makes sure Percival is alone in the armoury, and then confronts and tries to possess Arthur in the throne room, a place of significance to both of him and Uther. He could have lured Merlin down to the dungeons and trapped him in a cell (like the sorcerer he is), tried to hang him with rope like a proper phantom of the Camelot opera!
12th September 2021 @ 3:50 am
Oh, thank you for that! I always get confused with the festivals since they just drop a feast name and then don’t really focus on the celebration!
Omg! That is funny to think about! Hey Bob! Haha yeah….why did it take them years to train when Arthur just did it almost perfectly so easily??
Questions! So many Questions! (Said in dragoon voice)
You are so right!! Uther did use place of attack significantly with everyone but Merlin! Nice insight!
11th September 2021 @ 10:48 pm
“Why isn’t Merlin invited to be a part of it?! I know it was mentioned in the podcast that Merlin and Arthur are “two sides of the same coin” so since Arthur is sitting at the table then Merlin basically is, but I just don’t feel this way. He was sitting at the round table in the original round table scene so why not now?! I am so frustrated with how emotionally constipated Arthur is when it comes to showing Merlin and everyone around that he really cares for Merlin and respects his opinion. Merlin is Arthur’s most important council and HE KNOWS IT! Just admit it, Arthur, and show him SOME sort of respect publicly. How is it that Gwen was able to move up in station when she became Arthur’s gf and take care of Uther and run the castle and Merlin is still just Arthur’s servant? ”
I do wonder if Merlin would even want that? He complains about Arthur constantly, sure, but while he would probably want more days off and to not be yelled at, I feel like actually Merlin feels his place is supposed to be more behind the scenes. His position is at Arthur’s side, in a personal capacity, and being “just” a manservant allows him far more intimacy with Arthur than any other position in court. Arthur can express his real feelings to Merlin on occasion in part because Merlin ISN’T a knight or a court official, he’s “just” Merlin. And it seems that to be looked to for “official” advice wouldn’t really suit Merlin.
12th September 2021 @ 3:53 am
You are probably right… Merlin always says he doesn’t want credit. Even if he didn’t get promoted or get to sit at the table…. I just wish Arthur found some way to appreciate him more! Maybe hitting him less would be a great start…. I don’t know. I guess Arthur’s love language is different than my own….
Again, this frustration of mine stems from my frustration with their last conversation that I will just have to wait to talk about… :S
14th September 2021 @ 11:44 am
this season is super hard to not discuss with the awareness of what is to come, but trying to stick to what we have seen so far, I agree with Esme, I don’t think Merlin would want a seat at the table, for similar reasons that Esme mentioned. ie being “just” a servant allows him far more intimacy with Arthur than any other court role he might be given. But I also think it’s so important for Merlin to be seen and act as “just” a servant, so he can watch from the shadows without anyone paying attention to him, so he can protect Arthur with people never even knowing what he did, so he can be overlooked and underestimated by people, which is ultimately their downfall 97% of the time.
Which is also why yes, the only appreciation we can “officially” give him, is via Arthur himself, and we’ve often talked about the emotional constipation of Arthur himself, but also the show overall. they just couldn’t deal with letting the merlin/arthur relationship grow and develop naturally. they’re so stuck on their ‘banter banter slap pout laugh’ formula 🙁
M Xx
12th September 2021 @ 1:23 pm
am 32 years old, married and have a career as a nurse, but I still feel I am playing dress up.
– I’m also 32! 🙂 And feel the same. It’s so weird to me that I apparently have responsibility for classes full of pupils and still mostly feel like I’m just pretending to ‘adult’.
And at some point Arthur says Gwen is the one he trusts most in the world? FALSE! He trusts Merlin most! Another example of how he is so emotionally constipated when it comes to Merlin…. –
Yeah, that line always jumps out at me too because it is just not what we see on the screen at all. Like others have said, it actually feels that the warmth and intimacy that Gwen and Arthur had built up in season 3 (not too much of it in season4) has been replaced by formality and dignified smiles. I think this sort of emotional constipation is due to the showrunners and writers. When reading interviews or watching commentaries with the producers I very often get the feeling that they were thinking of their show very differently to the way viewers received it and weren’t necessarily good at either reading the response from their audience or really, credibly, to translate their own vision onto the screen. Don’t know. I think even by the end of season 5, they still thought of their show as The Adventures of Merlin when we watched it as Merlin or even The Tragedy of Merlin and Arthur.
Uh….so Arthur and Merlin went “hunting” without spears or crossbows or anyone else? Yeah…..OK…. –
Merlin lost them when he fell into the river?
I thought the knights were changing out of their armor, yet they all walk out in chainmail? –
Because they have NOTHING else to wear. The chainmail and trousers. That’s all they get. Arthur is the king so he sometimes gets to walk around in a red tunic.
12th September 2021 @ 1:57 pm
They made me King of Camelot, and all I got was this red tunic… 😆
13th September 2021 @ 2:04 am
🤣😂
12th September 2021 @ 4:16 pm
Maybe the writers thought because kids watched the show, they would be too grossed out by anymore PDA from Arthur and Gwen, especially since it should only increase as they marry. But I’m afraid We will never get so much as a kiss from those two again. For real. During the whole of season 5, Arthur and Gwen do not kiss. What message are the writers trying to make to kids, that once mummies and daddies get married, the passion of the chase immediately stops?
13th September 2021 @ 2:05 am
But I feel they could show Gwen and Arthur being close without PDA. I wish they would show them as friends at least! This feels just so cold….
13th September 2021 @ 10:27 pm
I feel like S5 is where I developed the brunt of the feeling that Bradley James and Angel Coulby have no chemistry. Upon further reflection (and listening to this podcast), I can see where its more of a writing issue than actor chemistry issue – they certainly have a couple of standout episodes, showing they can manage feeling when the episodes/writing are better developed. I still hold that its not ENTIRELY a writing problem . . . on the whole, I think Angel Coulby’s one of the weaker actors on the show (I also felt kind of meh about her and Lancelot). But the writers clearly failed her character and all its possibilities.
I would find the failures of that storyline writing/chemistry/whatever almost less problematic if that was the case with every non Arthur/Merlin relationship on the show, but I disagree with the premise that this show cares about nothing else. Even if Arthur/Merlin is the preeminent relationship force, plenty of other relationships on the show have meat – Uther/basically everybody (seriously, his scenes with Arthur, Merlin, Morgana, Gaius, and even Gwen have unique threads of substance and intensity); Gaius/Merlin (even if Gaius is irritating); Merlin/Mordred (thats just hot); even Morgana/Arthur (despite how her storyline suffers seriously as well, I at least still feel layers and emotional intensity when they interact).
14th September 2021 @ 9:15 am
“Merlin/mordred (that’s just hot)” – guiltily agreed 100% lol
14th September 2021 @ 12:09 pm
I don’t think we ever meant to imply that the show doesn’t care about any other relationship, and I apologise if that’s how it came across. For me it’s more that the show prioritises Arthur and Merlin’s relationship, and clearly struggled to juggle and nurture more than just the one really solid relationship (which still has problems with being entirely linear, and often wobbles in ways that doesn’t make sense), and therefore other relationships often suffer for it.
It’s not that I think they don’t care about Gwen, or Elyan, or Gwaine, or Morgana, or went out of their way to write them bad storylines and scripts. More that they didn’t prioritise any of them, and therefore when they ran short on time, or had to change course dramatically in a character development, because they messed up on an earlier script, they just did. So it’s more about being willing to sacrifice quality more when it comes to any characters other than M&A (and as mentioned, sometimes them, too)
M Xx
14th September 2021 @ 2:47 pm
I agree with most of what you said regarding the relationships on the show – but I also feel that some of it might be due to the fact that it’s instantly easier to recognize the emotional intensity of a relationship when there is some angst involved. For instance, Arthur and Morgana’s relationship was, at first, very positive but full of playful rivalry which made things interesting, then it became very angsty and full of hate and regret. With Gwen and Arthur, I think this relationship struggles mostly because they just want them to be “a happy couple” and it’s more difficult to write (and act) just happy people without it seeming bland. That’s why, I think, the most beautiful and intense moments between them come when there is some drama, like when Gwen is angry at Arthur in season 2 – or, for that matter, in one of the season 5 future episodes, but we’ll get to that 🙂
In general, Gwen has so many pining/devotion scenes, which are very difficult to act if you don’t want to fall into stupid stereotypes, I think.
14th September 2021 @ 12:00 pm
oh yay! We love a List of Destiny!! 🙂
–One thing that has always puzzled me is why is this woman suddenly on her deathbed? It’s just kind of weird the villagers decide to burn her when she is dying. Did the villagers beat her or something? Also, why do you need to show the horn “kindness and compassion?” What difference does that make?–
oh, I don’t think it’s about showing the horn kindness and compassion. Arthur showed that to the woman, and therefore she wants to reward him by giving him a (turns out, pretty slugging dangerous!) gift. But yes, the fact that she’s suddenly dying it… convenient lol I guess, maybe she was indeed on her deathbed? and the villagers caught her trying to do magic, to heal herself? or maybe (as was the case with real life witch burning), caught her making a herbal tea to ease her aches and pains, and burnt her at the stake for it…
–Someone mentioned above that Arthur doesn’t know that Merlin’s dad is dead, but there was a deleted scene from Aithusa that I thought he mentioned it to him. Something about last seeing him in that cave?? Maybe they forgot they cut that?–
yeah, Ruth and I were just talking about that scene, which of course they HAD to cut, as otherwise Arthur would *have* to work out that Merlin’s dad (who Merlin had never met, by his last admission) was that dragonlord dude, which surely means… so yeah, can of worms. totally get why they cut it. and yes, I guess it’s possible they forgot they cut it. they also wrote and filmed it, before remembering that this would get them in trouble, so… anything is possible lol but to be fair, I had totally forgotten that Arthur doesn’t actually know that Merlin’s dad is dead. brainfart on my part, too. So I should probably give them some slack.
–It takes YEARS to train to “not look back?” OK… I do love how Arthur scrapes his plate all guiltily and is like….”maybe”…when Merlin asks if he looked back. I know it isn’t suppose to be a funny scene, but I just giggle when Arthur tells Merlin “Leave me,” and Merlin stares him down for a second and then leaves, but continues to stare him down the entire time like “You know I’m right,” all the way until he closes the door. 🤣–
I totally agree, and I think so would they. They’ve always been great at finding humours tones or gestures, even in the most serious scenes, and yes, I totally giggle, too!!
— Everyone is saying Merlin and Arthur aren’t looking at each other after Uther disappears, but this whole time I thought they were! (And I thought it was really intense eye contact and kind of uncomfortable.) I like it better if they aren’t looking at each other so thanks for that!–
haha you’re very welcome! I think if you’d want to think they’re looking at each other, there’s totally a read of that, but yeah, I agree, it would be super intense and… weirdly challenging with implications of ‘I did this for you/look what you made me do’ to merlin, which would be odd, but also just a ‘okay… are you gonna say something? this was brutal and now it’s super uncomfortable’ – avoiding someone else’s gaze was invented for a reason!! hahaha
–I LOVE the horn and bowl scene, BUT since when does Merlin knock? —
actually, there’s continous knocking this season!! next episode he is going to knock at both Arthur’s door, and Mithian’s!! Maybe that’s what Merlin learnt in the three years we didn’t see hahahaha
— Totally worth Gaius being alive just for that one scene! 🙂–
no. I’m sorry but… NO.
hahahaha
M Xx
10th September 2021 @ 5:02 pm
This episode was very satisfying – not one of the best episodes they have ever done, but solidly in the top third.
I think someone already said this- but it occurred to me that a good way to start the season might have been a mirror to S1 instead of S4. The trick of the castle being empty feels a little pointless except to have an ominous start to the season. Starting off with some sort of trial scene where we realize Arthur is very much not Uther and that things have changed in how he handles trial proceedings would have been a quick way to fill in some of our questions about the time gap. (And yes – i know the first scene of Merlin technically was his walk up to the castle….but I feel like the call back to S1 would have been apparent if done right).
I feel like the fact that he automatically goes to talk to Uther is understandable here. That death is freshest in his mind. My parents and I randomly just had this discussion in relation to naming babies – in Judaism, you tend to name kids after relatives who died, and my parents had an argument about how you traditionally choose the name – my dad suggested you tend to name the kid after whoever most recently died that you knew. Now, I don’t think theres any rules in that regard actually; but it does call an interesting point to me and how we think of loved ones who died – the fresher pain is always foremost in our mind. And Arthur’s lack of interest in using the horn to call someone important to Merlin fits in with his character throughout the show – he loves Merlin, but he’s certainly self centered. The lack of Gwen involvement here is more problematic, but likely even if she was part of this story it wouldn’t change – for better or for worse, they all revolve around Arthur.
I do think Uther’s extreme cruelty in this episode troubled me the first time I watched – I thought his death in S4 was well done and a fitting end for his character that after everything he died for his son. This felt like it erased some of that? But I guess it makes sense that his ghost would be more vengeful (and in some ways, shows how even his relationship with the viewers can be a little toxic-despite how obviously terrible he is, I always wanted his love for his son to win out and was happy in the scenes where it did! Love me some flawed villains).
In regards to Merlin not being at the table – I think some of that keeping him back is purposeful to heighten the tension of Arthur’s automatic drawing Mordred into his fold – but that also would have been a nice way to demonstrate some sort of character development in that dreaded time gap. Because as we’ve discussed before and I’m sure you will touch on more again, the stunted nature of the Arthur/Merlin relationship becomes increasingly problematic . ..
Something I absolutely LOVED and I think vaulted this episode a few spots higher in ranking – Bradley’s emotions when he blows the horn are INCREDIBLE. as you mentioned, they both are lovely, and how they are looking past each other in their separate turmoil is well done – but particularly I wanted to cry watching his mix of relief, pain, and near tears. Something this show does well is allow its male characters to really show emotion – we don’t get enough of that in our lives! I really wanted to give him a hug – and not just because he’s so pretty 🙂
10th September 2021 @ 5:31 pm
–but particularly I wanted to cry watching his mix of relief, pain, and near tears. —
the moment that absolutely kills me is after Uther disappears and we get the cut to Merlin, and then back to Arthur, and Bradley’s still panting slightly from the turmoil, and he does this one breath, while the horn is still on his lips, and you can hear the breath whistle past the horn…. I don’t know why it gets me quite as much as it does, but GAH! It’s so good!!!
10th September 2021 @ 5:36 pm
oh, and I totally get what you mean in regards to almost.. besmirching Uther’s memory with this episode. Which is why I think it’s so important that the episode is ambivalent in regards to how much is Uther really Uther, how much is he a vengeful spirit that is simply using Uther’s factual flaws to torment the living.
It’s like the Dorocha, right? They were the spirit of the dead, and we couldn’t stop to question why they were hell bent on killing anyone they encountered, because then the whole ghost story would fall apart. We just have to be willing to accept that spirits returning from beyond the veil are NOT happy campers! which literally all fantasy television EVER teaches us, anyway… lol
10th September 2021 @ 6:23 pm
“spirits returning from beyond the veil are NOT happy campers”
Love this, seems legit XD
10th September 2021 @ 6:20 pm
Considering that much of the discussion before involving how last season would have involved much more death than the writers were prepared to go for, and how Ruth and Michele say Gaius for example should have died before now, it just occured to me how if that had indeed happened, when Arthur asks Merlin ‘would you do the same’ he would have replaced ‘your father’ with ‘Gaius’ and then maybe even offered Merlin a go at the horn after. But like sugarloaf said, to Arthur, Merlin has not lost anyone particularly close recently. And yes, to Arthur, his father’s death is the most important and recent. It sticks with him more, it doesn’t matter it was three years ago at this point, or that Agravaine’s death was more recent than his father’s death, his father was more important. It didn’t matter that he likely could have had a much more pleasant conversation with Ygraine.
-Love me some flawed villains- SAME
11th September 2021 @ 1:00 am
-Something this show does well is allow its male characters to really show emotion – we don’t get enough of that in our lives! I really wanted to give him a hug – and not just because he’s so pretty 🙂-
Yes!! This show does it so wonderfully and Bradley and Colin are amazing at having tears in their eyes…. Gets me every time!
10th September 2021 @ 11:50 am
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to write a long comment like I usually do, but I couldn’t leave this episode without one as this is my favourite of the season. I desperately missed just Merlin and Arthur going on adventures and it feels so nice to have them together like that again.
I usually hate “scary” stories, but this one works for me. Even though it’s the scary episode, it’s also one of the most lighthearted of the season. There are so many beautiful moments in this. Like, half of this episode makes it into compilation videos because they’re delightful. I have no idea how that fisting joke was allowed, but it is very amusing.
Also, the fisting joke is what made me go viral on tiktok. Not what I wanted to be known for, but that’s social media for you. At least I could amuse like a million people with that video 😅
10th September 2021 @ 3:01 pm
you can’t just say that and not include a link????? hahahaha
10th September 2021 @ 3:07 pm
haha here you go https://www.tiktok.com/@dodo_denise/video/6944670878642769158?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6923698726025135622
10th September 2021 @ 3:22 pm
HAHAHA oh god, i am so glad I’m on my laptop where I’m not logged into TikTok and therefore the comment section isn’t showing, as otherwise I’d spend the rest of the day reading comments on this!!!! lol
10th September 2021 @ 4:13 pm
Haha that’s something else, and now I regret I don’t have TikTok! 😀
10th September 2021 @ 4:05 am
Hello! I’ve just caught up with the podcast this episode and I really love it, thank you so much!
Something interesting about Arthur not offering Merlin to use the horn is that Arthur doesn’t know Merlin’s father is dead. Merlin’s never told him because he said in 2×08 he’d never met his father, and telling Arthur now that his father died would bring up too many questions related to how Merlin knew and who his father was. Arthur thinks he’s asking Merlin a rhetorical question, and has no idea that it’s actually not rhetorical at all. As far as he’s aware, Merlin’s never lost anyone close to him (Arthur never knew about Freya either), and Merlin can’t tell Arthur that he has. I think Colin does a good job subtly putting this in his performance; he seems like he’s holding himself back from saying more or showing more emotion than what he does.
Feeding into that, I think this season more than any other displays the wedge that Merlin’s secret drives between them. It’s always been there, but I think it comes up far more than usual this season, and is the first time that Arthur feels the distance between them (such as right after the feast at Annis’ castle where he’s frustrated that Merlin doesn’t seem to understand why he has go to Ismere – which Merlin does, and might not have tried to stop him from doing in the past, at least not so bluntly – but is because Merlin is holding back information from him). I don’t think Arthur feels the distance between them in this episode with Uther, but it’s another instance that makes Merlin feel more alone. He’s more isolated than ever this season, to such a degree that even Arthur feels it at times.
Back to the episode, I think as to why Arthur doesn’t try and speak to Ygraine is that he didn’t have a good experience talking to Uther and he’s a bit shaken up, and his last time trying to speak to Ygraine also did not go well. I also wonder to what extent Arthur being older affects that need to find a connection to his mother that he had when he was younger. It’s not likely to look the same. And he didn’t take anyone else with him because he’s too preoccupied with his own emotions about seeing his father, and doesn’t want anyone but Merlin to be there.
Thank you again for the podcast – you bring up so many things I’d never thought about and it’s always interesting!
10th September 2021 @ 3:04 pm
–Thank you again for the podcast – you bring up so many things I’d never thought about and it’s always interesting!–
right back at you! Welcome to the “live experience” haha and thank you for your comment, which has really made me think… much appreciated!
M Xx
9th September 2021 @ 4:39 pm
This is my favourite episode of season 5 and that is saying something. Its different to any other episode in the entire show because it appears to have been made deliberately Halloween-y themed and spooky for October, unlike the other ‘throw-away’ episodes like Goblin Gold which was a crack fanfiction brought to life.
First point right in, this episode is pointless. It would have made more of a major impact if there had been a mini series set between season 4 and 5, during the very first year of Arthur’s and Gwen’s joint rule. Where Arthur would still be expected to be a little unsure of himself as king and husband, especially now he has no ‘adult supervision’ anymore. Mini spoiler, but after this episode, nothing about Arthur changes much. We don’t see a massive confidence boost in him to take the bull by the horns and charge head on into building HIS kingdom HIS way, finally letting go of the shadow of his father’s ghost (quite literally). Which would have been awesome. This episode SHOULD be brilliantly making that point. I don’t know how much time has gone by since the Arthur’s Bane two-parter, but usually where we complain the plot is too complex and messy, this one in my opinion isn’t complex enough. And that is why this episode needs a seat in a three-episode mini series set during the teething problems of Arthur’s and Gwen’s rule/marriage. ARTHUR, THREE YEARS HAVE PASSED, WE DIDN’T SEE IT BUT YOU SAID YOU BROUGHT PEACE! WHY YOU STILL HUNG UP ON YOUR DEAD DADDY’S OPINION??
So (deep breath) from the top:
Why is the king of Camelot, during a tense fragile time, going hunting still with no-one but his manservant? Do they think Morgana is properly dead this time? Like you guys said, we are given nothing to suggest it so.. the saxons are still out there btw.
I do like the bit at the start where Arthur saves that old woman without wanting to hear any context on her side. She may have been innocent and falsely accused because that’s what people did back then. Using the laws to their advantage, villagers accused others of conjuring spells on them just because they had a minor disagreement about chickens on their land, or they did a sin and didn’t want to feel responsible for it so ratted on an old lady down the street that she made them feel lust for the baker’s wife, etc. The old lady could have indeed done what the guy said and brought sickness to the village. We’ll never know, she was still clearly magic, she handed Arthur the horn! But nope, Arthur saves her and lets her die peacefully. Nice thing. Wish this part stood out more as a cookie to Arthur for being a good puppy in Merlin’s eyes as hope he will accept magic soon…
I agree that the first episode back should have shown a bit more ‘in the day of the life of New Camelot’, before charging into ‘ah dang our three years of apparent peace is over, there is news Morgana has appeared from the woodwork’. I get they wanted to start everything off with the ‘Camelot is empty, Merlin is alone’ fake out that lasts 10 seconds, but what could have been good is a different fake out. Arthur sitting in the council chambers looking serious and regal and ‘Uther-like’, staring down on someone in the middle of the room, and we realise it’s a trial. As the scene plays out we see someone else accusing the person of sorcery, having apparently done many, many terrible and we think Arthur is about to sentence this person to death on their say-so. Instead, it would become apparent the person accusing and the accused just don’t get on and by the look on Arthur’s face, this isn’t the first time he has seen this happen. So surprising us, the council and the accuser, Arthur lets the man go because there is no evidence at all to prosecute him. Proving he is much more lenient on the magic community and fair hearings than ever. Heck, if this show did flash-backs, this scene could have been squeezed into this current episode if they wanted to show the differences between Arthur’s and Uther’s rule. Now, all I can imagine is that bearded guy yelling at Arthur “she turned me into a newt!” And under Arthur’s glare, add “…. I got better.”
Back to it, anyone notice that even when there was a person clearly screaming bloody murder, Arthur rushes off yet Merlin sits exasperated on his horse? I mean jeez Merlin, sorry someone in peril is now such a crimp in your day! This is a magic person, Merlin. YOU should show a little more care and concern! Did the woman sense he was Emrys, she sure looked at him as if she could sense a fellow magic user…
After all that’s happened, Arthur doesn’t blink an eye at the idea of using magic to walk into the spirit world and have a chat with his dad. The magic part barely is a problem to him, his conflict comes from whether the trip will be worth it, what stuff he and his dad would say and that’s HUGE!
Gaius took part in such ceremonies WHEN?? And how, the Old Religion as far as we know do not let males do much. This is a pretty big part of your past to leave out. He must mean, he watched his mother take part? He said to Merlin in season 1 his spell book came from his mother… where is that spell book? Does Merlin not study it anymore?
Poor Arthur, His birthday and anniversary of his mother’s death is within days of his Coronation anniversary and his father’s death. That’s a pretty emotionally packed week 😟
In my notes I also wrote “Uther’s tomb is pretty neat”, the art and props department should be commended on making it the likeness of Antony Head haha.
I love the dinner scene. It gets me every time. Again, it seems more fitting when this episode could have been set way earlier during Arthur’s reign, like during the first anniversary of Uther’s death. It just seems weird that after the third Arthur finally over-think he’s not done right by his father and wants to ruin what lovely goodbye he had with him to talk to him again. If the kingdom was going through a major transition and recovering from Morgana’s second attack and Arthur had much to change, his mood would be more understandable, but he did say last episode his kingdom was at peace and thriving… But I do love how the room is so full and roaring, and yet Arthur is in his own world. Everyone gets days when you feel so lonely even when surrounded by people you love.
In a deleted scene, Percival just stands up and gets everyone else to stand and say ‘to the king’. Considering this bit wasn’t technically needed, it only added a few seconds, it could have been given to someone else, but at least every main knight in the show got at least one line in this episode. Not a big achievement but still. A little extra camera linger on Mordred too in the Deleted scene, must be before he asks Elyan why the king is sad. Besides Merlin and Gwen, Mordred is the only other in the room that notices and watches the king’s emotions. This is an awesome character note for Mordred, empathy. His magic IS emotion-connected.
Why is Elyan sat way down the other end of the table, he is Arthur’s brother in law, Gwen’s brother! Is he being made to babysit the younger knights? Can’t he be seen talking with his sister once?
Which brings me onto poor Gwen. She and Arthur have the most stale and boring marriage I was hoping never to see from them. (Kinda spoilers) They act like two nobles who were arranged to be married very young and are merely being fond to each other to keep everything running smoothly. Arthur is never himself when around Gwen, it’s like he puts on a perfect husband act and their dialogue together is so bland and generic. In fact, they had some more interesting scenes together in this episode but they were cut!
The spoon scene is kinda funny. I dislike Arthur’s still physically abusive and his go-to comeback ‘I’m the king of Camelot’ is still lame and childish, but the way Merlin tries to get a rise out of him is good.
Stonehenge is a very famous structure and when we see similar things, we think ‘ooh stonehenge’, but apparently it’s not totally unique, these stone circles were built in quite a few places and in different sizes around the country, rumored to be used as a calendar for the planning of agriculture, astronomy and seasonal equinoxes. Stonehenge would make sense in the Merlin Universe, since it’s near where we guess Camelot is and their journey time there and back is pretty close but its size is off, so these ‘stones of Nematon’ is apparently just a smaller and more local version for people of the OR to summon spirits rather than planning their harvests. If this is the show-makers’ own creation with fake stones or matte painting, it could have had more of a unique, intricate, magical look to it.
I always find it an odd saying when in tv, someone says to another person they thought was dead, or is a spirit “I thought I’d never see you again”… Well YEAH, that’s kinda the thing about death. You’re supposed to never see them again? You think about the person fondly but never that you might one day see that person strolling down the street, or one day find a way to summon them back… Arthur says this to Uther now, and Gwen said this about Lancelot back in ‘Lancelot du Lac’.
This other world raises so many more questions about spirituality and a vague religion we don’t talk about in the show, and whether there are heavens, hells, gateways or purgatory, both in belief and in-universe reality, both for magic and mortal men. Was Uther in hell or in the underworld with the fomorrahs and the manticores? He surely isn’t in any type of mortal good place. So there’s Avalon that the sidhe guard, the spirit world that the Cailleach guards, the underworld where Morgause apparently is (due to a lost cut scene), and now here. Where’s here?
So… No-one gonna mention Morgana in this Morgana-free episode? Doesn’t Uther think Morgana is a bigger problem for the kingdom than Arthur hiring common men as knights…? Why not go and haunt your daughter, Uther..?
I would have liked some sort of time difference between the other world and real world, like when Arthur comes back after minutes of talking with Uther, it’s been hours or days in real time and he is met by Leon and his search party waiting outside the stones next to Merlin (That’s why time with a spirit must be brief, because otherwise real time passes you by too much). Have Arthur share this experience with some other people for goodness sake! On the way back, have them swear to secrecy not to tell Gwen if he really must, but not communicating his thoughts and stresses to his queen kinda defeats the purpose of marrying for love. But involve some talky knights please!
There is a deleted scene where Arthur gets back from his trip and gives Gwen flowers. A generic line or two exchanged, and Gwen talks to him about not liking how he snuck off without telling her anything and that it’s okay if he needs me-time away from her sometimes(and rather be with Merlin, she’s actually jealous of the more time Arthur spends with Merlin!). This suggests either they are going through a rough patch OR about to go through a rough patch, the honeymoon phase ending… but it just never goes anywhere. This part could have been so interesting to touch on since at this time Arthur has already spoken to his father and the seeds of doubt about him weakening the kingdom have been sown. An inserted heated argument later would have added so much to their dull on-screen marriage and fueled Arthur’s doubts about marrying Gwen. Once Gwen storms off saying she is going to sleep in her own chambers that night, this is where Uther’s attack could happen. This is my version though; the deleted scene doesn’t involve even a slightest raised tone. The cut scene ends with the vase Gwen had just put the flowers into shattering (via Uther) when they leave the room.
As far as I can tell, since all the knights are here only, no Gaius or Gwen, Leon is simply reciting a list of the current number of knights distributed around at each border garrison settlement in the kingdom. Which is fair play, its mundane and boring, but at least tells us more about Camelot’s military set up. The army is so big now that they have knights to spare and station at places around the land to preserve order and protection of surrounding villages, and I never thought so hard about this scene in my life til now 😁
No knight jumped to their feet or got out their swords as a reaction to the doors slamming open or the chandelier breaking. I know Leon’s report is boring but wake up! That could have been an emergency, you call yourselves warriors??
Also, I thought the stone spiral staircase was outside these doors, I don’t remember that room outside the hall being there, with the seats and the big fireplace. That’s a new room…
Also, Also I paused the screen on the aerial view. I love how before the doors opened by themselves, we see Gwaine with his head back not remotely pretending he’s not bored haha. But really, what is with this seating arrangement? Why does Percival sit at Arthur’s right side, then Gwaine, yet brother in law Elyan is at the other side sat next to new knight Mordred again? I get that the round table is all about equality but surely there is some sort of plan due to how close you are with the king and how practiced you are as a soldier…
The new room the knights are in actually is a better armory set than the one before, its more in keeping with history. That sort of arched catacombs type room looks like what is called the Undercroft, a large lower part of a castle typically used for storage. It makes more sense than stuffing all the weapons and knights undressing into a room that looks like the same set as Arthur’s chambers haha.
Were the knights just training in that big thunderstorm? I would have loved to see that. Like to see actual banter between them too, however little. However the knights leave the armory with all their chain mail still on. Can we see any of them without normal clothes on anymore?
Going back to last episode, If Arthur knew Mordred was a druid and made a big deal and leap forward in openly knighting a druid, Mordred would get more of an appearance in this episode too, likely also getting attacked by Uther. Percival gets axed (why/how is he alive??) and then Gwen gets locked in a smoker’s section of the 80s office break room, and the Uther spirit stops there? He’s using hypocritical supernatural powers to destroy what he thinks are insults to his legacy, why is he going so mild about it? Oh right, family show.
So Uther has seen everything; seen Arthur’s common knights, a servant Queen, dirty bugger has likely even seen Arthur in bed with his wife…. But doesn’t know about Arthur’s manservant having magic….. okay….
I cringe and laugh at the same time when it’s season 5, Gaius is still alive, just wants an easy smooth transition into retirement and still starts most of his sentences with ‘during the purge’ or ‘in the days of the old religion’. (sigh) “Never look back at the spirit as the veil closes”, yeah he could have known about that when you were talking about the horn before, Gaius!
Deleted scene: Merlin comes in the room whilst Arthur and Gwen are having dinner (Gwen will actually be sat next to Arthur in their private chambers, unlike in future), Merlin has come to tell Arthur he needs to be the one to blow the horn but Gwen is there so they just look at her. She gets the hint and quite understandably p**sed off, gets up and takes her plate away. This is so interesting to me! I wanna see this stuff, I wanna see Gwen getting annoyed she’s not being told anything but doesn’t get between Arthur and Merlin’s secret sharing. I don’t want to see them have a perfect lovey dovey, disney marriage, I don’t wanna see a proper, stuffy, boring king/queen relationship. I wanna see flaws, tension and realistic arguments mixed with romance and love. Such little details but so juicy!
If Gwen and Arthur WERE going through some stuff right now, it would be good reason why Gwen is NEVER gonna be spending much time in their shared chambers. There should have been a bit after Merlin leaves the room when Arthur tells him to go when Gwen comes out from behind the screen or something having listened to Arthur and Merlin and confronts Arthur. They could get into an argument about why Arthur would meet his father, why Arthur never tells her anything, she storms out and this follows neatly into Gwen walking the corridors to her own chambers before getting attacked. I guess Merlin’s sassy glary-eyed exit was enough.
“Is someone there?” …… nope, not even one guard, not one servant. Not ever. Sorry Gwen. This is why queens are followed by ladies in waiting and maids. And Gwen, honey, I’d feel you’d run a lot faster in less constricting dresses. Just saying.
WHY IS ARTHUR STILL IN DENILE ABOUT UTHER!? This part makes me angry “I know my father wouldn’t do these things.” “Why is he doing these things”. For all that is good and holy, Arthur honey, your father in life nearly had your GF burnt at the stake simply coz she was a servant. HE DOESN’T CARE THAT YOU LOVE GWEN! If Uther feels that Arthur losing his wife will give him the backbone to rule ruthlessly and brutally like Uther did, then this subject should have come up. Arthur, your father is dead, don’t be afraid to mention your mother anymore. Don’t be afraid to talk to your father about anything you couldn’t do before. That was the point of this, right?
I like that Merlin was the one to rescue Gwen from the slightly on fire kitchens, but again, are there no other characters who could have been given this heroic deed. Where’s George?… I miss George.
How buff does Colin look! I mean, cor blimey! Sorry, it’s just… Merlin no longer has a non-threatening weakling look about him. His shirts barely contain him. He’s taller and bulkier than Arthur!
Love the jokey jump scares mixed with really intense drawn-out silences and eerie footsteps in this episode. I can’t even watch horror and thrillers, this is as scary as I can take lol. Well, It was scarier 8 years ago haha.
Again, Arthur does not question or feel wary about the fact he has used magic to visit his father, using magic tonic to see the ghostly form of his father (how that works, Idk), and is about to use magic to send his father back. This is not addresses AT ALL.
Ahh the legendary famous Poetry scene 😊
That time-out moment with Arthur and Merlin talking while looking for Uther is lovely. Again, its not needed. Merlin has had to give Arthur the ‘pick-me-up’ schpeel every episode. Surely three years of peace means Merlin shouldn’t need to repeat himself, yet Arthur needing to voice his doubts to Merlin is always lovely, but too late to be doing this again. He should be talking out loud to his father or himself right now, bringing up all the positives he’s brought and all the things he’s glad to have achieved since being king, Merlin shouldn’t be doing all the work, just listening. Arthur should finally be thinking and working stuff out for himself.
The room Arthur meets Uther in is the council chambers, the mini throne room Uther called meetings and audiences into. Arthur has been led to his own trial and his ghost father is now Judge, jury and executioner.
Still no mention of Morgana, no heirs yet, the purge, Ygraine or any other things that should be tied up as a swan song to Anthony Head’s portrayal as Uther Pendragon. Arthur should start making a speech to his father, first starting small and quiet, listing the ways Gwen is good for the kingdom, how his army is larger, stronger and closer than ever. How Morgana is a bigger plight of the land, how Uther’s mistakes are what Arthur had to struggle to correct, how druids SHOULD be allowed into the city. As Arthur gets going, he should get louder and more confident so we can see that he finally learning the lesson as he is talking. That no, he won’t stand for his rule to be insulted, that his father is gone and has been gone for years. This is simply a manifest version of the baddest sides of Uther, not the real Uther. Arthur marrying for love was right and he shall finally let go of his anxiety.
Uther was never gonna kill Arthur. How can a ghost who no-one can see ever continue ruling Camelot? Uther was going to possess Arthur’s body like druid boy ghostie did with Elyan and rule Camelot through Arthur. I hope there’s a fanfic out there where Uther possesses Arthur but no one realises so for a little while Arthur is acting cold and ruthless and nearly kills his wife, and knights, nearly kills Merlin and nearly brings on a second purge until Merlin realises what’s going on and exorcises Uther’s spirit from Arthur’s body. Oh please can there be a fic like this!
I wish Merlin’s reveal of magic to Uther was more epic than catching a bench mid air, the music build up was too dramatic for the moment. I do love Merlin’s line though “Even while you were king, there was magic right in the heart of Camelot.” This isn’t an Emrys moment like with Agravaine, this is Merlin trying to put power into his own human presence himself. When he speaks, Colin does a lovely thing with his voice like he’s trying not to tremble and sound strong. Finally telling Uther the stuff he can get away with. After all, Merlin doesn’t need to bring out ‘Emrys’ to brutally kill a threat, if the threat is already dead. He knows it doesn’t matter what he says to Uther, about him being his son’s saviour and yet he has magic, because he knows Uther is a massive hypocrite and its not about not trusting magic to be a good thing. It’s that Merlin had magic at all, and magic to Uther is like “savages” and the “land of gold” to Radcliffe in Pocahontas. He can have it, no one else can.
Anthony head managed to add his roaring alien headmaster Krilitane impression there, Love it!
I don’t get the special effects for Uther getting expelled, like, why blow him up and fill the screen with blue and just cut to Arthur? I feel that could have been done better. Like the light that appeared for Arthur when he first went through the gateway could have lit up the armoury and Uther was being dragged screaming by a strong force back into the afterlife.
And so no one other than Arthur, Merlin and Gaius know what transpired here. We don’t see Gwen again, we don’t see the knights again, Arthur doesn’t really learn anything new and sticking, Merlin’s magic is still secret, Merlin hits Arthur, and we end with the most queerbaity/suggestabley violent shot ever haha 😊
This mood at the end kind of reminds me of ‘the sins of the father’, where to Arthur, it’s been his own personal journey, his past and private family life been called to the stands here. That he’s been through the emotional ringer this week, and completely oblivious to the impact this adventure has had on Merlin too. Solemn Arthur standing by his window winding down and essentially telling Merlin ‘thanks for coming on this wild quest with me and reminding me magic is still evil, I never got to meet my real mother, I was so close to killing my father’, etc. It’s kind of the same here with Arthur mainly speaking out-loud as they get on with the events of the day and in only subtext, thanking Merlin for dealing with Arthur’s ghost-father crisis, totally ignorant of Merlin’s confrontation with Uther and whether Merlin does or does not feel uneasy around magic. Because, looking back, it seems that Arthur might think that Merlin is untrusting of magic just as much as he is…
I would have preferred one of those nice open endings, like in Torchwood where the group’s memories are erased for their own good but at the end Jack still finds a box he doesn’t now know about and so it’s just put to the side with the implication it might pop up again later, we would never need to know. Instead of the comedic tonal shot of Arthur’s fist being the last we see before credits, Arthur and Merlin could just have a nice meaningful chat in the armoury about what they learned and Arthur asks Merlin if the horn has been dealt with and leaves. Merlin is left sitting alone, waits a moment and then takes the horn out of his jacket and just stares at it for a couple of beats before the Merlin title appears. Implying Merlin has also had the temptation to use it and like many magical artifacts in the show, he might store it in his room and save it for later. We never have to see the horn again, but the thought provocation is there for headcanon use.
Sorry this got long again. This ep may be filled with more cons than pros (and personal rewrites), but I’d still sooner watch this episode before any other in the last season by choice…. Mmh Maybe ‘the Kindness of Strangers’.
Great podcast as usual, ladies.
9th September 2021 @ 6:09 pm
“ARTHUR, THREE YEARS HAVE PASSED, WE DIDN’T SEE IT BUT YOU SAID YOU BROUGHT PEACE! WHY YOU STILL HUNG UP ON YOUR DEAD DADDY’S OPINION??”
Okay, I don’t want to sound patronizing here, but I feel like this is one of those things that are difficult to get if you never had to struggle in a toxic relationship of any kind. For some people who were raised by abusive parents, the healing process can take years. And sometimes, even though they think they’ve already worked through this, some trigger appears, and they are back to square 1, or almost. I think that’s what happened with Arthur here. His father is dead, he was sure he’s left that past behind, but suddenly, an opportunity to meet him again arises, and Arthur yet again experiences all the anticipation and dread and a need for validation which he was hardly, if ever, given when he was growing up. For years, Arthur was sure that it was him who was the problem, not his father (see how many times he’s surprised in season 1 when Uther voices any kind of praise for him – “I always thought you were ashamed of me” he says); it can take a really long time to realize that it’s Uther that’s the problem. Short moments of clarity (like in The Sins of the Father) can come and go, as it happens in life: you’d sometimes have those moments of realization that your parent is toxic, but then you’d try to rationalize their behavior, excuse it, or try to ascribe better intentions to them than they already have (hence Arthur’s disbelief at Uther’s willingness to kill Gwen). Anyway, sorry for the rambling, I have this rather passionate reaction every time I hear that Arthur shouldn’t be experiencing those emotions at this point anymore – I always just want to yell “I’ve been there and that’s one of the most realistic portrayals of this situation on TV that I’ve ever seen”.
“Besides Merlin and Gwen, Mordred is the only other in the room that notices and watches the king’s emotions. This is an awesome character note for Mordred, empathy. His magic IS emotion-connected.”
Oh wow, I never thought of it that way, but it’s so true! Mordred has a way of sensing emotion, and I’m glad they kept this characteristic.
As to the deleted scenes – much as I agree that the writers lacked ideas for how to write Gwen&Arthur as a married couple, I’m actually glad they didn’t include those scenes in this episode. Not just because it would add yet another point of tension to an episode where Arthur already has a lot of emotional work to do, but because it creates an unnecessary rivalry between Gwen and Merlin. There is some tendency in the fandom to pan Gwen against Merlin (especially when you like Merthur), and that’s so sad for me, because surely, in a healthy world, there should be a space in Arthur’s heart for both of them? In whatever capacity. Also, Gwen and Merlin used to be best friends, and seeing that go in such a brutal way would crush my heart (it still does, as this relationship just disappears this season, but that’s another thing). I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’ve got nothing against Arthur and Gwen going through some rough times and conflicts, I just wish they weren’t Merlin-related, or portray Gwen as the jealous wife type. Just no, please. 🙂
“Uther was never gonna kill Arthur. How can a ghost who no-one can see ever continue ruling Camelot? Uther was going to possess Arthur’s body like druid boy ghostie did with Elyan and rule Camelot through Arthur. I hope there’s a fanfic out there where Uther possesses Arthur but no one realises so for a little while Arthur is acting cold and ruthless and nearly kills his wife, and knights, nearly kills Merlin and nearly brings on a second purge until Merlin realises what’s going on and exorcises Uther’s spirit from Arthur’s body. Oh please can there be a fic like this!”
Oh wow, that’s such an awesome scenario and I want that fic, too!
10th September 2021 @ 3:17 pm
I agree with you, it’s not as easy as “just get over it”. Thank you for being so honest in talking about this really tough circumstance, and contributing your personal experience to the analysis of the story.
I think the other thing that makes things harder for Arthur is that he never actually broke away from the toxic relationship with his father.
He was constantly looking for uther’s approval, occassionally got a morsel or two, and then uther died.
That’s not the same as Arthur making the decision to leave and go at it by himself. He didn’t get a choice in what happened, he wasn’t ready, and he loves his father. Arthur never actually gets to confront his dad about the abusive upbringing Arthur had and how much damage it has done. Which is also why that’s such as rich topic in fanfic – but show Arthur doesn’t actually seek that confrontation, and he doesn’t seek to break all ties with his father, and he didn’t want him to die. And maybe if Uther hadn’t died, Arthur would be able to still gain his father’s approval, and maybe if only his father could see him now, maybe he would be proud… because Arthur’s still looking for that, deep down.
What I love about this episode is that (in my opinion) the conclusion that Arthur reaches isn’t that his father is toxic and that he must break all ties with him and never even think of him again, because I don’t feel that this would be in keeping with anything we’ve seen from the Arthur/Uther relationship. What Arthur concludes is that he needs to stop seeking his father’s approval, and judge himself by his own standard, not by what he thinks his father’s standard would be.
M Xx
10th September 2021 @ 4:18 pm
Yes, you expressed it way better than me 🙂 And I also don’t think Arthur should now stop thinking about Uther ever, as it’s an unrealistic expectation even when you really cut the ties with your parents. But I think realizing that his father had some serious limitations and that he doesn’t need his approval to do good is a very important step.
And by the way, I forgot to mention it before, but I also really like how Merlin interacts with Arthur in this episode. He never says things like “how can you be so naive about your father” etc., he just slowly and gently helps him realize his father’s approval isn’t something he should be seeking. It’s very good. 🙂
10th September 2021 @ 4:47 pm
You’re right. I appreciate your input, I don’t really have an experience with a toxic relationship so I couldn’t be sure how realistic the portrayal of Arthur’s remaining doubt and denial about his father actually is. Because we don’t know how confidently he ruled without thinking ‘WWUD’ during those three years, the sudden lack of confidence in his abilities and anxieties about his father in this episode particularly set three year on seemed odd, but I get now that yeah totally you can get triggers. In a deleted scene at the start, Arthur stops his horse and just stares into the valley. When Merlin asks what’s wrong, Arthur replies ‘I rode through here many times with my father and after all this time, its still hard.’ Now it makes total sense. I didn’t mean to come off insensitive or anything.
I agree, though I would never want a situation where Gwen and Merlin are at odds, and in my opinion, I don’t feel any kind of tension between Arthur and Gwen in the deleted scenes suggests or oozes with Gwen/Merlin angst. I of course have read the fanfictions where Gwen comes off as a b***ch because the fic is strongly Merthur, But I see a potential for Merlin, Arthur and Gwen to be a cozy noneRomantic trio, like Sherlock/John/Mary. If those deleted scenes made it into the episode, I don’t think it would have changed much of the majority opinion of Gwen this season, many people have said they don’t like how Gwen and Merlin have lost their history and friendly chemistry now, but I never would connect it to ‘Boo Arthur won’t share his time with both of us’ lol
10th September 2021 @ 5:22 pm
–When Merlin asks what’s wrong, Arthur replies ‘I rode through here many times with my father and after all this time, its still hard.’–
oh wow, that’s actually really powerful, and a shame they had to cut that.
10th September 2021 @ 6:35 pm
Don’t worry, I wasn’t offended or anything 🙂 I also regret that they cut the riding scene, that would have been powerful indeed!
I think my reaction to the deleted Gwen scenes might have also been influenced by seeing some people online go “oh why did they cut it, it’s so Merthur and Gwen is JEALOUS!!!” which, yeah, not great. I agree that Gwen and Arthur should have had a much better storyline this season though!
10th September 2021 @ 4:01 pm
— Mini spoiler, but after this episode, nothing about Arthur changes much. We don’t see a massive confidence boost in him to take the bull by the horns and charge head on into building HIS kingdom HIS way, finally letting go of the shadow of his father’s ghost (quite literally). Which would have been awesome. —
don’t get me wrong, I would VERY HAPPILY see anything that showed us Arthur’s rule and how it is different, and what ‘bringing peace to the land’ actually means, however I think it would have been weird to have this episode change things dramatically within Arthur. To me, Season 4 was all about Arthur being unsure within his rule of Camelot and constantly double guessing his own decisions, and that’s why he listened to someone so obviously sucky as Agravaine.
But he’s been King for 4 years now, acting King for longer. I see the 4/5 hiatus as Arthur having spent the last 3 years building his kingdom his way, and I don’t think that’s massively undermined by episode 3. He was maudlin throughout the episode, because it was on the anniversary of Uther’s death (having lost my mother almost 10 years ago, I understand that anniversaries are gonna affect you differently, than the day to day does), and when he had to chance to see his father again, he did so. Who wouldn’t, I think? I dunno, I don’t feel that he used the horn because he wanted to see his father because he’s spent the last 3 years hoping that his dad would approve of every decision he has ever made, and worrying that it might have been the wrong decision. I feel that he wanted to see his dad because he’s worked really hard over the last 3 years, and he wanted to say “look dad, look what I did, isn’t it great?” – which is foolish, because Uther is a sucky sucky father, but understandable I think.
When my mum died, I had moved to the UK a couple of years prior, and I was in the middle of a huge career change, working really hard to retrain and do something I was excited about. And I remember thinking ‘She’ll never know what I did with my life and everything I achieved, which is a shame, because it’s going to be amazing!’ … so yeah, I emphasize with Arthur’s ‘look what I did’ approach lol
–In my notes I also wrote “Uther’s tomb is pretty neat”, the art and props department should be commended on making it the likeness of Antony Head haha.–
Hilariously I read this as ‘they should be commended on making it the likeness of Anthony’s Head’ LOL which, of course, is also true… lol
–Stonehenge is a very famous structure and when we see similar things, we think ‘ooh stonehenge’, but apparently it’s not totally unique, these stone circles were built in quite a few places and in different sizes around the country, rumored to be used as a calendar for the planning of agriculture, astronomy and seasonal equinoxes.–
I didn’t know about the agricultural aspect, that’s cool! thanks for sharing 🙂
en sown. An inserted heated argument later would have added so much to their dull on-screen marriage and fueled Arthur’s doubts about marrying Gwen. Once Gwen storms off saying she is going to sleep in her own chambers that night, this is where Uther’s attack could happen. This is my version though; the deleted scene doesn’t involve even a slightest raised tone. The cut scene ends with the vase Gwen had just put the flowers into shattering (via Uther) when they leave the room.
–Also, Also I paused the screen on the aerial view. I love how before the doors opened by themselves, we see Gwaine with his head back not remotely pretending he’s not bored haha. But really, what is with this seating arrangement? Why does Percival sit at Arthur’s right side, then Gwaine, yet brother in law Elyan is at the other side sat next to new knight Mordred again? I get that the round table is all about equality but surely there is some sort of plan due to how close you are with the king and how practiced you are as a soldier…–
that’s always been my issue with the round table, even as a child, because I understood the round ness and equality, but how close you’re sitting to the king surely is a HUGE DEAL!!!! so yeah, I’m with you. But maybe so is Arthur. Maybe he’s thought of that, and therefore makes them all sit in completely random orders every time, so no one gets jealous! lol
–They could get into an argument about why Arthur would meet his father, why Arthur never tells her anything–
they totally could, but as I’ve been campaigning for, for 4 seasons know, alternatively THEY COULD TELL GWEN STUFF!!!!
it really bugs me that she isn’t brought into more stories, especially now she is queen, and clearly doing a decent job of ruling camelot and making decisions, whenever Arthur is absent. Though I do totally get that this specific episode, you wanted to be a merlin and arthur episode, because you’ve not had that in a while. but literally any other time… TELL GWEN STUFF!!!! lol
–Merlin is left sitting alone, waits a moment and then takes the horn out of his jacket and just stares at it for a couple of beats before the Merlin title appears.–
nice! I totally see why they didn’t, what with knowing it’s the last season and all, but I do like the idea! And it is indeed very Torchwood / Doctor Who (The Doctor’s daughter is still out there, travelling the universe after all…)
M Xx
10th September 2021 @ 5:36 pm
Thank you so much for sharing 🙂 I do understand how certain things throughout the day that make you think of lost loved ones and how particularly anniversaries bring up memories and other triggers. I’ve gone about my day and something would make me think ‘if my nan could see me now’, or I’d see something and think ‘ooh I’ll share that with my grandad or my cousin’ and remind myself they aren’t there. I’ve never had a toxic relationship with anyone so I don’t know the differences that go with that. But I’m fascinated with the psychology of it all, and I can see how it effects Arthur and how anyone watching on the outside would find it so easy to say ‘they ain’t worth it, just let them go.’ I understand how Arthur would just really want a catch up with his dad (as you say, who wouldn’t), only for it to hit home he’ll never hear anything encouraging in return.’
10th September 2021 @ 5:44 pm
the ‘I can’t wait to tell them…’ feeling, shortly followed by the ‘…oh’ of remembering, is the worst! and yeah, it can literally come out of absolutely nowhere, which is why the deleted scene you mentioned about Arthur and Merlin on horseback struck me as such a strong scene. If I do watch deleted scenes I do spend most of my time thinking ‘yeah, i can see why you deleted that…’ lol But that one is a real shame to not have included in the show! 🙁
–‘they ain’t worth it, just let them go.’ —
absolutely! and I don’t even think it’s because people are being insensitive or anything. it’s just… there’s literally nothing else you can do. There’s no action you can take to help. And therefore, as a friend, the ‘get over it’ approach (as harsh as it sounds) is kind of your only course of action left sometimes…
though it is also why Merlin’s written really nicely in this episode. He’s got his own hang ups in regards to Uther, completely seperately from Arthur, nevermind the toll he can see that relationship having taken on Arthur over the years, but he managed to keep it completely seperate, just be there for and listen to Arthur, and contain all of his Uther anger for his own confrontation. They really did a nice job in this episode with Merlin & Arthur both, I think.
10th September 2021 @ 5:59 pm
Absolutely, this is probably why, during the whole show, Merlin couldn’t let Uther die if given the opportunity. Merlin cares about Arthur’s mentality surrounding these events. He may not totally understand how Arthur can constantly defend a man like Uther (therapy and psychology not being a thing yet) but could sympathize with what it would do to Arthur otherwise to be contradicted or have his feelings insulted and glossed over because no-one understands. I agree, Merlin during this episode is lovely towards Arthur. Taking his time, sympathizing with him. Just like he was similarly in ‘sins of the father.’
10th September 2021 @ 4:38 pm
“I do love how the room is so full and roaring, and yet Arthur is in his own world. Everyone gets days when you feel so lonely even when surrounded by people you love”
Yes yes yes – not something I thought about on first watch, but a nice subtle example of how isolating Arthur’s role can still be, even in this brighter era. And it’s certainly not a coincidence that Arthur makes the most rash decisions when he feels the most alone.
“The new room the knights are in actually is a better armory set than the one before, its more in keeping with history. That sort of arched catacombs type room looks like what is called the Undercroft, a large lower part of a castle typically used for storage. It makes more sense than stuffing all the weapons and knights undressing into a room that looks like the same set as Arthur’s chambers haha.”
I just watched the commentary for this episode and they pretty much confirmed the armory had been the same set as his chambers previous to this year 🙂
“WHY IS ARTHUR STILL IN DENILE ABOUT UTHER!? This part makes me angry “I know my father wouldn’t do these things.” “Why is he doing these things”.
Because Arthur desperately needed Ye Olde Therapy. Danuta’s comments are much more eloquent than mine, but its probably fairly realistic that he struggles with this. It’s a hard line to balance in fiction, and I think this podcast has touched on it before – how much is inconsistent character growth purposeful to be realistic v. just inadequate show planning by the showrunners? But in this case I think it strikes a realistic chord that he still struggles with his memories of his father.
10th September 2021 @ 5:49 pm
Yeah absolutely, I get how Arthur has after all these years hid away all the bad parts of his father, because no one likes to think or speak ill of the dead, even if its your own hypocritical, psychologically damaging father, but its either apt for the scenario or odd writing how memories of his dad sentencing Gwen to death in series 3 never came to mind where he still wondered how Uther would want to hurt Gwen now, after Uther had openly insulted her presence to Arthur in the spirit world. I get he’s still in denial and doesn’t want to see the badness inside someone he loves even though it’s literally happened in front of his eyes several times and believes it’s his fault. Not unlike a similar situation for another character nearing the end of the season…
Ye olde therapy, nice, I agree 🙂
11th September 2021 @ 1:31 am
-Gaius took part in such ceremonies WHEN?? And how, the Old Religion as far as we know do not let males do much. This is a pretty big part of your past to leave out. –
Wait wait wait…. I thought Gaius trained a little with whatever magical group Alatar was part of…. Or was that a whole head cannon thing from the episode where Gaius was kidnapped and tortured? Also, he talks about how he studied with Alice before the purge. When I watch this scene of Gaius saying he took part in a ceremony, I always thought he was kind of a bystander watching kind of like Merlin did when Arthur did it. I just imagined there would be more like ceremony and chanting for others to take part in while the priestess entered the realm.
11th September 2021 @ 2:34 am
-They act like two nobles who were arranged to be married very young and are merely being fond to each other to keep everything running smoothly. Arthur is never himself when around Gwen, it’s like he puts on a perfect husband act and their dialogue together is so bland and generic.-
I 100% agree! Their marriage is really boring…. SPOILERS I really hate how they use Evil Gwen for multiple episodes. I wish instead they would have Gwen, Arthur and Merlin (and maybe a couple knights sometimes) going on adventures. I want Gwen to grow into her role as queen, but I also don’t want her to be some generic queen. I want her to be different and more hands on because of how she was raised and her background. I love the idea from last week of her sneaking into the lower town to help the people and then I love the idea that she could be a warrior queen now. SHOW me this by having her DO something besides look GORGEOUS in her new gowns (I really do love her in the red gown.)
I just kept reading more of your comment and later you talk about show tension between Arthur and Gwen. ABSOLUTELY! That is WAY more interesting than the Disney version. I want them to show us that Gwen is still sharp and can pick up on when Arthur AND Merlin (I mean they use to be great friends) are hiding things from her. Gwen has never had her head in the clouds so why does it seem like she does now?!
11th September 2021 @ 6:51 pm
Absolutely, or the 4 episodes of Gwen brainwashing COULD have gone towards properly developing the important ingredient of the finale, Mordred! at this point he would still be only a little babbie knight who hasn’t been out much on quests at all and has no reason to hate Arthur and still desperately wants Merlin to like him. Lets better use those 4 episodes to gradually rectify that shall we, writers?
11th September 2021 @ 7:07 pm
Yeah I don’t remember any more recent a time when Gwen has really had a real good go at Arthur since the very first episode their relationship started ‘once and future queen’ in season 2! Yelling at him about being a git and not knowing humility and still treating her like a servant in her own home. From then on,, whenever Arthur needed someone other than Merlin or Aggy advising him or chastizing from something, Gwen should have been an involved girlfriend/future queen too. Even when he was breaking up with her in season 4, she looked miffed, but just went ‘i see’, and let him go. Fight for your man, Gwen! Tell him when you’re not happy, tell him this marriage is a two way thing! You’re allowed to show how real relationships are, even for people so in love in the time of dragons.
9th September 2021 @ 4:09 pm
I’m so happy you share some of the love I have for this episode! It’s definitely one of my favorites in the whole show, and you pointed out the best bits so well: the conversation by the campfire, Merlin’s attempt at cheering Arthur up by engaging in the well-known banter, Arthur’s lack of response to that, then the whole showdown between Arthur and Uther in the throne room, and the Uther-Merlin scene with magic, so powerful.
I must say this episode is doubly important to me for a rather personal reason, so my reaction is heightened by that. The whole emotional turmoil Arthur is going through is so relatable to anyone who’s ever had to deal with a toxic parent and cut their ties to them. The way Arthur, on some level, knows that his father wouldn’t approve of what he’s done, but he still seeks that approval. The way the passing time made him forget or soften all the bad aspects of his father in his memory, and the way he feels betrayed when all the bad aspects of Uther come to light again and he realizes he had an idealized picture in his head. The way it takes so much emotional effort for him to finally blow that horn, and when he does, it’s played as such a heroic scene, like there’s hardly anything braver that Arthur has ever done (and a SPOILER-y note: his posture when he raises the horn mirrors his posture in the finale before the battle. Really moving) It’s all so well done, and – even though some might say that it’s really late in the show to have Arthur still struggle with Uther’s expectations – I think this is so, so realistic. I may have cried a little at that scene of blowing the horn.
Similarly, the Uther-Merlin confrontation is fantastic, but I think you already expressed most of the reasons why I also find it so compelling and interesting. And I might have cried a bit at Merlin’s anguish and anger as well. It does feel cathartic indeed – in a way, Merlin is confronting the source of all the tragedy in the show!
The poetry scene always makes me laugh. Especially the way Arthur and Merlin say “LEON” in synch, somehow. 😀 And yes, the fisting scene… um, I really don’t know what they wanted to do with leaving us on that note 😀
A soundtrack note! This show – as it’s been even noted by one of the writers in the DVD commentary at some point – has a lot of music, and there are barely any scenes that are silent. So the use of silence in the horror-y scenes is quite noticeable. Also, I really like the faint dysharmonic trumpets playing every time Uther’s ghost appears or speaks. A trumpet is a rather triumphant instrument, revoking honor and courage, and to have it play it distorted here is a significant choice, like it points out to the fact Uther twisted those ideals.
9th September 2021 @ 4:12 pm
Oh, also, I forgot to add that Uther’s emotional manipulation is spot on in this episode. He basically throws Arthur’s ideals into the mud, then emotionally blackmails him by saying “I will always love you”, then tries to hurt him, then is all pleading when Arthur is about to blown the horn. Classic toxic parent.
9th September 2021 @ 4:46 pm
I had noticed just how many quiet/non soundtracked scenes there are in this episode til you said it 🤔
10th September 2021 @ 3:19 pm
the pleading at the end is especially representative of toxic behaviour to me. That always gives me very very uncomfortable flashbacks to my first boyfriend and the horrendously toxic relationship I was in with him. And yeah, actually, the ‘I love you’ guilt trip, to keep you on the hook and all. you’re spot on.