Merlin Season 4 Round Up
Join us for the Season 4 Round up, as we discuss all things Merlin Season 4.
Thank you to everyone who listened and wrote in; everyone who discussed, debated, and made friends on the website; everyone who played the Lesson Learnt game, became a Patreon or supported us through Ko-Fi, purchased items from our Red Bubble store, liked and shared our content on social media, and was all around awesome.
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As mentioned in the podcast:
“Thoughts on Princess Mithian” by ravenya03 on LiveJournal
Arthuriana Vol. 25, No. 1, Special Issue on Cinematic Re-imaginings of Arthurian Literature (SPRING 2015)
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FanFic Recommendation from IRIS:
An excellent Tristan, Isolde & Gwen story is Refined by almostwhimsical.
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7th June 2021 @ 11:06 pm
After listening back over some of the podcast, and hearing you guys talk about the ‘yahtzee’ way these episodes of Merlin seem to be put together, I honestly would be very interested to hear what everyone’s own listed order the episodes should go in of s2, s3 and s4, taking into account all the character/relationship regressions, out of place plotlines and weird tonal shifts you mention.
9th June 2021 @ 10:57 am
I believe… Mary and Danuta mostly? discussed episode orders quite a lot, back in season 3, however those weren’t even all that hypothetical, because they stemmed from comments made on the DVD commentary tracks or in interviews or similar, where episode numbers were mentioned, but plots of later episodes associated with them, suggesting that the release order was changed late in the production schedule. So yeah, there is definitely an exercise in story telling/fixing, in re-ordering the episodes and seeing what one can come up with 🤔
6th June 2021 @ 5:10 pm
OH MY GOSH SEASON 4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE MAGIC REVEAL!!!
(Spoilers)
And not just cause the actual magic reveal was infuriatingly late and we never actually get like a reaction?? Or any interaction afterwards?? Like seriously how would Arthur have reacted if he wasn’t literally about to die??
(End Spoilers)
I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say that the show ends with the Battle of Camlann. Season three ends with Morgana being openly evil. Season two is actually surprisingly bold for the show (or at least should have been) and ends with the release of the Great Dragon, and the lose of one of Merlin’s safety nets (or should be), and Morgana turning evil, and Season 1 ends with the death of Nimueh (who after listening to this podcast I’m realizing how great a villain she was and wishing she could have stuck around), and, as mentioned in the roundup, Merlin’s first Emrys moment. These are all big milestones, at least in theory, and Season 4 is basically just Season 3 finale take 2. So, what’s the other obvious big milestone for the show? The magic reveal. I get that the show was too scared to do that, but the end of a season would have been a good place, and at the end of season 4 is even better because you’re only left with the final season in which you have to deal with it.
(Spoilers)
The end of season 4 would have made even more sense considering the fact that we have a 3-year gap between seasons 4 and 5. They could have done the magic reveal towards the end of the episode and not really dealt with the reaction, and then skip to 3 years later when Arthur’s accepted it and we’ve moved on. It would be a cop out absolutely, but so is revealing it in literally the last episode. Like, it’s not even revealed in the first half of the last episode. It’s literally revealed when there is less than 45 minutes of the show left, and Arthur dies even sooner than that. Doing it at the end of season 4 and then jumping would at least have given us a season of Arthur and Merlin interacting post-reveal.
(End Spoilers)
And I don’t need Arthur to be like ok, that’s so cool, we can bring back magic. He could be like I’m gonna pretend that didn’t happen. He could be keeping Merlin at a distance throughout Season 5. The only thing he can’t do is execute Merlin, which I don’t think he’d do at this point any way.
Ok, new topic now: I don’t think Merlin makes Arthur king. I don’t think Merlin is the cause of Arthur’s destiny anymore than Arthur is the cause of Merlin’s. Merlin is Emrys for reasons I still can’t figure out, and Arthur is the Once and Future King because he is the purest representation of his people. He’s completely ordinary to the extent that he’s extraordinary. This might not make sense, and I don’t have a comparison to explain it, but that’s how it works in my mind. Merlin doesn’t give him that anymore than Arthur gives Merlin his magic.
Spoilers
About the point of a story being that things change, I’m not sure I actually agree. To me the problem isn’t that nothing has changed, it’s that this feels accidental. I would have no problem if nothing really changed and that was point, if it felt intentional. It would fit in so nicely with the beautiful tragedy of the show. Arthur and Merlin fail in their destiny. They’re supposed to do all these things and they don’t. I would actually really like it if this idea was intentionally brought up and talked about in season 4. It can totally work to have a show, or part of a show, where you’re not getting anywhere, where you’re just stuck in stasis and not moving forward. I’ve been binge watching The West Wing, which is why I’m so late in writing this, so I can’t help but think of Season 1 of that show, where they’re not getting anywhere and fighting to just avoid losing ground. I think something similar could have worked here, and I think it would have been really beautiful to have that be intentional.
End Spoilers
5th June 2021 @ 11:42 pm
This was such an enjoyable episode, not too long or boring at all! I will echo the other commenters here in saying that I’ve gotten so much joy from this podcast, thanks to both of you for all of your hard work. The podcasts are so insightful! I find myself thinking, “Oh! Wow, I never thought of that…” so many times, and I love that feeling.
In general F+F is really making me appreciate good story writing in all forms, but particularly in television. I can’t wait to check out How Story Works, thank you for that recommendation!
The only superlatives from me today are for you, wishing you both a FANTASTIC, EXCELLENT, MOST
AMAZING hiatus.
9th June 2021 @ 10:49 am
🥰🥰🥰
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
M Xx
3rd June 2021 @ 3:57 am
Also! I just saw this! Looks like it is official! Merlin was a Slytherin!
(I hope the link works!)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPoOT9Wtsbh/?utm_medium=copy_link
3rd June 2021 @ 10:02 am
VINDICATION!
3rd June 2021 @ 3:13 am
I know you were joking about people being asleep since the podcast was so long, but I was actually hoping it was going to be three hours! I think it is safe to say I am slightly obsessed…
I wanted to add a few more of my favorites from this season I forgot to add last time:
Favorite Katie performances:
– When Uther dies and Katie “feels” it
– Her escaping in the last episode and killing people in slow mo with wild hair
Biggest Aha! Moment:
– When someone on the website pointed out that Merlin’s dad was living in the cave to protect the last dragon egg 🤯
Thank you for all you both do! You both have brought me so much joy since discovering this podcast! Hope you have a wonderful summer!
3rd June 2021 @ 10:04 am
we do very much appreciate the vote of confidence in us not boring our listeners to death! haha 🙂 🙂 If we’d done the superlatives it would have been closer to four hours, which i sjust ridiculous! even for us!! lol also, this way, you get an extra episode during the hiatus. yay!
Have added your superlatives to our spreadsheet, thank you 😀
The UK has finally remembered that it is indeed summer, so we’ll do our best to enjoy the sunshine, and not dye in the heat. hope you have a wonderful summer, too! Xx
1st June 2021 @ 5:51 pm
FanFic Recommendation:
An excellent Tristan, Isolde & Gwen story is Refined by almostwhimsical. After her banishment, Gwen is saved by them after she is captured by slave traders and joins their effort to help King Marche rid his kingdom of the slave trade. After many months of training with them, she becomes a fierce warrior. After Arthur loses his kingdom to Morgana, Gwain goes in search of assistance and he is rescued by Tristan and Isolde and brought to their settlement where he finds a much changed Gwen. Eventually after agreeing to come to Camelot’s assistance, Gwen and her comrades save Arthur and what’s left of this loyal knights as they are attacked by Helios’ men. After much angst and a long and painful reconciliation, they successfully mount an effort to regain Camelot. Gwen is slow to forgive Arthur for her banishment and her character arc is much better than BBC Merlin. She arrives at a place where she is finally Arthur’s equal and everyone is better served by her empowerment.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7602766/1/Refined
1st June 2021 @ 7:29 pm
Amazing, thanks so much!
1st June 2021 @ 8:43 pm
Oh wow, that sounds awesome, I’ll definitely give it a read!
3rd June 2021 @ 10:05 am
oooooh, excellent, thank you!!!
31st May 2021 @ 6:09 pm
Wow, thank you for this super in-depth episode, it was such a pleasure to listen to you 🙂 and to be on this ride together 🙂
Also, thank you Ruth for explaining the difference between character progression and character development to me in words that are easily digestible and make sense – for some reason, no one has ever told me that over the course of my Literature degree, which speaks a lot about the degree itself 😛 I must say that after sitting on that for a bit I do agree with you more about Arthur and the lack of character development (though I still do love him being multi-dimensional and sometimes weirdly contradictory).
I’m really really looking forward to hiatus episodes, and have a good hiatus everyone 🙂
1st June 2021 @ 7:28 pm
So glad you enjoyed it!
Yay – happy to be helpful! I’m always so floored by how little of this kinda stuff we generally get taught, including at university level – unless your specifically studying narrative theory or something no one ever mentions it and they’re such fundamental tools to understanding and talking about how stories are built. I don’t know how interested you are, but one of my fave podcasters has a series called ‘How Story works’ which goes into loads of this kind of thing in really easily digestible bitesized chunks. https://howstoryworks.transistor.fm/
I think they dug themselves into a massive hole with Arthur generally, which is that his personal story progression is completely tied to the series story progression – kind of they didn’t want Arthur to come into his own until Albion did – so they get stuck with him. Right from the beginning we’ve had this awkward 1 step forward 1 step back pattern that just has him covering the same ground over and over.
Have a good hiatus 🙂
1st June 2021 @ 8:52 pm
Thank you for the recommendation! 🙂 Sounds interesting!
That’s true about Arthur. I don’t even really mind if he hovers in this mid-space when it comes to making mature decisions about his kingdom (after all, it takes time to get actually wise) – as long as they explore some other aspects of him more. What I really wish happened would be Arthur still being unsure about making big decisions, but maybe learning to at least talk about it very openly from the start, without the constant “no Merlin leave me alone” which, fair enough, could have happened once or twice, but maybe not every time… I suppose what I’m getting at is that I wish after The Herald of a New Age Merlin’s words “so am I going to see the more vulnerable version of you from now on?” would actually turn out to be true 🙂 I didn’t see it in the finale, and, well, we’ll see how it goes in season 5 😉 (I have an inkling that Arthur actually DOES change a bit more there, but I’ll have to rewatch to see)
2nd June 2021 @ 7:43 pm
I agree with appreciating the breakdown between character development and progression! I actually wrote down what you said to help me in my own writing. Thanks for the “How Story Works” podcast! I’m going to look into that!